Thread: machinery for building acoustics

Okay in order of usefulness (IMO):

Most useful

1. router (at least 1). Ive got 4.
2. bandsaw..as big as you can afford. Ive got a carbatec 14" but often wish I had a 16".
3. Dremel tool and accesories.

Useful but you can happily get by without them

4. router table. easiest way to put in truss rod channels.
5. table saw.
6. thickness sander....not essential but saves a bit of elbow grease when working down tops, sides and backs.
7. belt/disk sander...handy for working bone saddles, nuts etc.
8. jointer...handy for working neck stock but I cant justify buying one.
9. thicknesser....no use for one (sorry Stuart ).

My best advice..if youre really tight for cash get 1 and 2 and spend rest on good hand tools.

Essential Hand tools:

1. some decent paring chisels and water stones to sharpen same.
2. block plane
3. #3 or #4 bench plane
4. cabinet scrapers and gear to prepare edges of same.
5. Jointing plane (good for shooting top before gluing up same)


Cheers Martin

Re cutting fret slots....do it by hand if youre tight for cash.

M and T joints....you can either cut these by hand (tricky) or use a router and jig (it's what I use for my steel strings).

thanks martin,
So far i have,
Drill press w/ drum sanders and a safe-t-planer.( which i thought a drill press coupled with add ons becomes quite handy as it has )
router
belt and disc sander


everything else i have is hand tools
japanese saws
chisels
honing guides and stones
scrapers
etc

but i guess my main interest in the 3 tools i mentioned was which will be the most useful and which can you really do without? my guess is more than likely a bandsaw will be very useful for a number of things ( but what about coping saw for this?).....and a jointer would make truing up stock so much easier as i have minimal experience with hand planes....but am happy to do it that way.

cheers grant

Its different for everyone I know, But I've got on fine without a jointer or a table saw, so I'd be inclined to spend all the money on a bandsaw! a big bandsaw!!
I think Martins right, you can cut the fretslots by hand, and I add that I think its just as good to setup the bandsaw to cut mortise and tenon joints.
Mm a router is very usefull though...maybe a router too. Bandsaw and router
Jack

when you mean big bandsaw.....you talking about depth of cut or motor power being an issue?
14" start at around $300 and up to around $800-900

even a lot of the 14" bandsaws I've been looking at have such different specs like depth of cut can be anywhere from 125mm to 200mm

I may have to snoop around the working with wood expo this weekend and see what deals people are doing

whats the bandsaw you have jack?

Hi Grant, sorry if that message was a bit confusing! All I really meant to say was that if its a choice between those three machines, then I reckon a bandsaw would be more usefull to the extent that it might be worth getting one good bandsaw instead of three smaller/ cheaper machines.
On second thought though you might be right to get a small saw.
Bearing in mind what Martin said about occasionally wishing his 14" saw was a 16". I had one of those taiwanese 14" saws for many years and it was great, could do just about anything except resaw backs and tops. Eventually I saved up and got a 3hp machine with a 20" wheel, which can do all the resawing I ever need, I even used it to thickness tele bodies before I could afford a thicknesser, so pretty close to 13" deep cut.
I found that this bigger saw was a bit awkward for the 80% of general work that I do so I got a small three wheeler, which was ok for a while, but now I've got a small two wheel saw that I got from carbatec, maybe similar to the one you were looking at. Its only wee, sits on a benchtop. I think the wheel is about 200mm diameter. Its great! It has a pretty good proper induction motor, not one of those horrible high speed screaming commutator motors.It can do just about everything for an acoustic, cut up bindings, cut out blocks, necks. It could cut tenons if needed. My point being (sorry to take the long way to get to the point!) that the little saw can do just about everything I used the old 14" saw for, except for the resawing which the 14" saw couldn't do anyway! So maybe the small saw you're thinking is a good idea...
...on the other hand, those 14" saws are really good....its amazing what it could cope with (sawing pun )
hope that clarifies a bit...
Jack

So far on my double bass I have used not many power tools at all. I prefer a bit of elbow grease to a lot of noise and dust.

- triton bench and circular saw for building the moulds.
- a power jig saw and fine fret saw for cutting outlines.
- variety of hand planes for thicknessing the sides and flattening the top
- gouges and thumb planes for carving (you wouldn't need this for a flattop guitar)
- dozuki for all sorts of things
- a few sheets of sandpaper and some scrapers

recently i acquired a bandsaw and it is useful, especially for cutting wedges, clamps, jigs etc as well as outlines. I used it to slice my purfling into strips - would have been quite hard by hand.

for jointing the tops I used a number 4 bailey plane and chalk. http://z4.invisionfree.com/Double_Bass/index.php?showtopic=3

I managed very well without a heavy expensive jointing plane and got excellent results on a piece of wood much bigger than a guitar top!

On the whole, I think you can do very well with a minimum of power tools. Spend your money on some nice blades and nice wood!

cheers jack,
thanks for the advice......although it would be great to be able to buy billets and resaw myself I just need to get the first cab off the rank first and later down the track look at all the other options..... I kinda thought a bandsaw capable of that would cost a bit considering the depth of cut needed .... I imagine at least 16" bandsaw would be needed and even then may or may not be able to cope with resawing.
So initially I will have to buy soundboards, backs and side material already roughly to size ......although i imagine it would be a lot cheaper to buy billets and resaw. I'll concentrate on the build process first.....as there is a lot of things to consider when starting out.
Is it one of those little sheppach 8" bench jobbies you using ? ....I looked at one of those when at carbatec last week .....they look well made..

Originally Posted by contrebasse

So far on my double bass I have used not many power tools at all. I prefer a bit of elbow grease to a lot of noise and dust.

- triton bench and circular saw for building the moulds.
- a power jig saw and fine fret saw for cutting outlines.
- variety of hand planes for thicknessing the sides and flattening the top
- gouges and thumb planes for carving (you wouldn't need this for a flattop guitar)
- dozuki for all sorts of things
- a few sheets of sandpaper and some scrapers

recently i acquired a bandsaw and it is useful, especially for cutting wedges, clamps, jigs etc as well as outlines. I used it to slice my purfling into strips - would have been quite hard by hand.

for jointing the tops I used a number 4 bailey plane and chalk. http://z4.invisionfree.com/Double_Bass/index.php?showtopic=3

I managed very well without a heavy expensive jointing plane and got excellent results on a piece of wood much bigger than a guitar top!

On the whole, I think you can do very well with a minimum of power tools. Spend your money on some nice blades and nice wood!

Thanks for the input......I have been following your build and its going very well ...although i haven't been able to see the pictures for some reason on my computer but have been eagerly reading your posts......

and like you so far i have been building all my jigs with circular saw and jig saw and added a few things like a drill press w/ drum sander to get the template shape for the mold and then routed the rest of the mold pieces with a flush cut bit..
I did buy a Dozuki as well because i thought it would come in very handy for cutting the sides at the neck and heel and also because it has a kerf of 0.45mm its pretty right for fret slots even though i have been considering a table saw i think i will do at least the first by hand....
I did get some japanese stones and a veritas honing guide which has worked great on my chisels ....i have been looking for some old planes but haven't come across any yet....i want a #5 or 6 jack plane for jointing and i think the little brass lie-nielson block plane looks good value....so mainly hand tools appeals to me also.....plus its a space issue for me as well
cheers

Originally Posted by gratay

I did buy a Dozuki as well because i thought it would come in very handy for cutting the sides at the neck and heel and also because it has a kerf of 0.45mm its pretty right for fret slots even though i have been considering a table saw i think i will do at least the first by hand....
I did get some japanese stones and a veritas honing guide which has worked great on my chisels ....i have been looking for some old planes but haven't come across any yet....i want a #5 or 6 jack plane for jointing and i think the little brass lie-nielson block plane looks good value....so mainly hand tools appeals to me also.....plus its a space issue for me as well
cheers

Grant, double check the width of that saw carefully before you use it on a fret job. Run a caliper over fret tang and saw to make sure the saw is good for the job. Personally I'd get a fret saw and keep it just for fret work rather than use a saw that is used for other work.

Lie Nielsen planes are great but I think the Veritas equivalents are a bit cheaper.

Cheers Martin

Originally Posted by gratay

Thanks for the input......I have been following your build and its going very well ...although i haven't been able to see the pictures for some reason on my computer but have been eagerly reading your posts.

have a look in your browser settings. In firefox under the Options/Content tabe theres a setting "load images" check that, but uncheck "for originating site only" that migh fix it. My images are hosted on another site.

What i found is that you learn as you go what tools you need. So don't buy up too much at the start. When you get to the "x" job, ask a luthier what they use for doing "x" and they'll tell you what the best tool is. Then go to Carbatec!

Matthew

martin,
I may do that because it is a 240mm dozuki and could be quite clumsy for fret slots although i felt it had the right kerf as i measured the martin style fretwire tang at around 0.75-0.8mm.....maybe 0.45 might be to tight especially in ebony..seems most fretsaws are around .5-.6mm

the bronze low angle block plane direct from lie-nielsen in australia sells for $149 and instead of the bronze you can get it in a normal iron for $119 which i thought was pretty good......i saw a thread on the OLF seems like a lot of those guys are using this plane ....i thought being lie-nielsen i would be more expensive ....but its only a little squirt
grant

$149 sounds very reasonable....I thought they were alot more expensive.

I have an 18" Jet bandsaw, it's invaluable. I want to get a decent table saw and jointer too but these are not essential, nor is the bandsaw really but it does make a lot of jobs much easier. Buy as big a one as you can afford.

If I was going to choose between my bandsaw and my thickness sander I'd choose the thickness sander from a time saving standpoint. Luckily sanders are pretty easy to build yourself, I think mine cost me about $120 to build.

I use a stanley #5 jack plane for jointing plates I find it much easier to use than my smaller planes.