Thread: Martin acoustics & retail margins

Hi Wortgames,

Asking advise on how to IMPORT a PRODUCTION guitar from the USA on the AUSTRALIAN INSTRUMENT MAKERS forum is a bit of a tease isn't it?

I meant it light heartedly. Buying US is good at the moment, but the advise I think you will get on this forum is "buy an aussie hand made acoustic" and you will get more bang for your buck. Alot of fine instruments made in aust. Martins are good guitars though. they did set the industry standard.

Good luck,

Peter

dont know too much about it, but the taxes and importers markup make up quite a bit. australia is a small market, and the importer wouldnt have much buying power with martin. often shops and similar will discount heavily from the rrp, but cannot advertise below that price due to an agreement with the importer/wholesaler in australia. this means getting a price below the advertised isnt hard. 40% may be alot though.

buy australian made guitars. there are plenty of great manufacturers (big and small).

Originally Posted by WortGames

Hi folks,

I am close to finally getting myself the Martin dreadnought I've always wanted. Not sure exactly which model it will be yet, that will depend a lot on the relative value between models, but it will certainly be more than I've spent on a guitar before!

I have checked out the costs associated with buying it online from the states. The strong Aussie dollar and low US prices more than make up for the freight, duty and GST. In fact, I would still save about 40% on the RRP by getting it from the US.

I would probably prefer to buy locally though and want to give the local dealers a chance, but we're talking hundreds of dollars difference and I'd like to suss out my facts a bit before I go at them with the thumbscrews.

Do you reckon a local dealer should be able to match my self-imported price? I know there are a couple more noses in the trough with wholesalers etc, but surely they should still be able to get a guitar to their back door for less than I can?!

Alternatively, any other opinions on what is fair and reasonable to ask for?

All of us who run businesses in Australia are faced with this problem. It is one of the effects of "globalisation". A couple of points to note;

• you Martin will almost certainly not be all made in the USA, so if you were looking for a collectors item you are in for a shock.
• as mentioned there are local luthiers who make equivalent or better instruments ,often from local Aussie timbers, I know that it is a big brand name but....
• there may be an issue with after sales service, no instrument is defect free and if you get a Monday morning special local Martin representatives may not want to expidite your repair request. Check on transferability of warranty.
• So you trust the mail system eh.....
• Beating the local guy down on price will work to some extent but be aware that they operate in a marketplace and will often be struggling to make their rent / wages etc. If they dont look pleased at your request dont be surprised. In my business if people tell me they can get cheaper from China or India I show them the door and call them horrible names and bemoan their lack of patriotism. Often they come back when they taste the fabulous offerings overseas.
• Is there no vintage or second hand instrument that takes your fancy? Your brand new instrument will come at a premium.

Sebastiaan

One name:
Tommy Emmanuel.

Think of the brand that he plays. (hint: souns a bit like martin...)
There are americans in the same position as you wanting to get there hands on aussie guitars, so...

Its the player that makes the guitar, not the other way around.
I saw Tommy in concert here in tamworth about 10 years ago at the Longyard. He played his Maton and (there were only about 400 people at the concert, very intimate
) he made that instrument sing. I have NEVER heard sounds like that come out of an accoustic before. NEVER. His recorded work is amazing, but it doesn't hold a candle to him live.
For me, the price could include a trip to melbourne to the Maton factory and pick up my new axe. Don't have to worry about the transport, the acclimitisation or the import tarrifs.
Dont forget cole clarks and Ellis guitars too, get yourself a custom hand made one for the price of a Martin.


Holy crap you LIVE in melbourne!
Go to Maton and look around!!!

Hi folks, thanks for the replies. I probably expected a bit of ribbing due to Peter's points, but I also figured the collective experience in these forums would make it worthwhile!

I probably didn't appreciate just how offensive my post might appear to a local maker though, so for that I apologise. I realise that there are Aussies (large and small) making superb instruments, and it is not about quality, or whether Martin are better than Maton or vice versa. It's just personal taste. I've had a bit of a 'thing' for Martins since I was a kid, but I've never been fortunate enough to own a really nice guitar. I've just reached that point where the yearning has struck again but this time I can scrape together enough tokens to do something about it, and the exchange rate is nudging me towards finally getting the Martin I've always wanted.

I certainly don't think my local guitar shop is struggling to pay its rent. And I'm happy for them to make money on the deal. But I don't want to single-handedly put their kids through college either, and the truth is if it will cost an extra grand or two to buy locally then I'll take my chances with UPS!

I guess I'll try my luck negotiating, but I was keen to try and understand his position a bit more first...

Originally Posted by Dusty Dave

Hi folks, thanks for the replies. I probably expected a bit of ribbing due to Peter's points, but I also figured the collective experience in these forums would make it worthwhile!

I probably didn't appreciate just how offensive my post might appear to a local maker though, so for that I apologise. I realise that there are Aussies (large and small) making superb instruments, and it is not about quality, or whether Martin are better than Maton or vice versa. It's just personal taste. I've had a bit of a 'thing' for Martins since I was a kid, but I've never been fortunate enough to own a really nice guitar. I've just reached that point where the yearning has struck again but this time I can scrape together enough tokens to do something about it, and the exchange rate is nudging me towards finally getting the Martin I've always wanted.

I certainly don't think my local guitar shop is struggling to pay its rent. And I'm happy for them to make money on the deal. But I don't want to single-handedly put their kids through college either, and the truth is if it will cost an extra grand or two to buy locally then I'll take my chances with UPS!

I guess I'll try my luck negotiating, but I was keen to try and understand his position a bit more first...

Don't worry about us, were just old (and young) fogies that cant afford a martin so were just jealous
Look, dude, if a martin floats your boat, then get it, wont matter what local axe you buy, it wont be that martin you longed for as a youngin'.
I mean martin only pioneered the steel string accoustic, I guess it has a BIT of historical, not to mention egotistical() oomph (I mean that in the best possible way, BTW)
Just, for gawd-sakes, pay for GOOD insurance.
Another place in the states is:
http://www.gryphonstrings.com/
Frank Ford, (everyone on this list knows I love this man!) has some seriously nice instruments for sale, take a look!

Get the Martin mate. No matter what happens, if you don't get one you'll regret it.
If it happens to not be what you expected then you're more the wiser next time around but at least you've crossed that one off the 'list of things to do before I fade away'.

I'm personally drooling over Jack Spira's guitars. They'll change anyone's mind to local builders!!!!

Originally Posted by oz tradie

Get the Martin mate. No matter what happens, if you don't get one you'll regret it. If it happens to not be what you expected then you're more the wiser next time around but at least you've crossed that one off the 'list of things to do before I fade away'.

I think you've totally nailed it there. Maybe I'm having a mid-life crisis and this is my red sports car?

I shouldn't have much trouble trading in a decent Martin, but I know I'll regret it if I don't take this opportunity to get one.

I've spoken to a couple of other Aussie suppliers and they certainly seem to have a bit of room to move, so the signs are encouraging. I don't want to screw anyone but this is a once-in-a-lifetime situation so if I have to play hardball to get the right deal I will!

Thanks again for all the input

Just wanted to chip in my 2 cents. When I was travelling in the USA I bought myself a Martin acoustic in a Guitar Centre over there. Even with retail and crap exchange rate at the time it worked out about $900 cheaper (mainly due to haggling and the Les Paul I bought for my brother at the same time). I then mailed the two guitars back to Australia via registered post.

The Les Paul arrived safe and sound, wereas my Martin arrived damaged (dropped from height in its flight case was what the repairer said). An extra $130 later and I had my guitar. There was insurance with UPS but it was an ordeal that lasted 7 months to get $100 reimbursed. All in all I would forgo the potential hassle if I had the choice again and not have an acoustic posted.

On the comments about Maton vs Martins; I've compared both side by side and have found the Martins to have a better sound (to my ear) for the same price. The Matons do have some great models (like the one Tommy plays) but you do generally have to pay more for them than the equivilent Martin. I also found that another brand of commercial guitar that is very good, Breedlove acoustics are very good and it was a line call between it and the big name Martin.

Firstly, on a personal note........I first played a Martin about 35 years ago.......couldn't figure out what the fuss was about back then and still can't. Secondly, based on numerous comments from a very experienced US luthier I'm acquainted with, I'd be very wary of buying a Martin without seeing and playing it first (there's a serious hint there). Thirdly, as someone who has imported well over a dozen Gibsons, I'd seriously recommend using DHL for shipping.......sure it costs but I can't fault the service.......allow approx., $500 to cover shipping, quarantine costs and import duties.

Thanks again guys, some good tips there.

Regarding the Martin v Maton issue, it is obviously a very personal thing so YMMV. A few years ago I had my heart set on an Aussie guitar (I was planning to move back overseas and feeling that a Maton would make a perfect souvenir). I just couldn't find one that really sang to me. My mate's 10 year-old Tommy Emmanuel did, but that wasn't (and still isn't) available.

Personally I find most Matons to have quite a distinctive, bright, 'Maton sound'. It's a nice sound, I just don't particularly want it for myself. Martins generally seem to have a fuller, more powerful bottom end, and as most of my playing is solo (or with Maton players) I really appreciate that. A good Maton will probably get there after 10 years or so, but the Martins seem to have it right out of the box.

Years ago, when I first learned to play, I had the opportunity to play (and see played) a few different types of guitar, and it was always the Martins that impressed me most. So after a brief (but fairly serious) attempt to find a Maton I loved I have finally realised that my original crush is a yank, and I need to work it out of my system...

I'm not especially proud of that, it's just the way it is

Originally Posted by HiString

allow approx., $500 to cover shipping, quarantine costs and import duties.

From what I could find out I am up for 5% duty on the guitar itself, plus 10% GST on the total value (guitar+shipping+duty), plus 'brokerage' and fees.

So for example, for a $3000 guitar:

$300 shipping
$140 duty
$344 GST
$65 brokerage/clearance fees
=
$849 import costs

By my calculations the import costs would only be $500 if the guitar was worth about $600?

Not trying to split hairs, just wondering if I've got something wrong?

No GST or duty on the guitar IF the declared value plus freight is less than $1000
Or just have a holiday in LA and bring it back with you (with receipt for sub $1000 purchase)

I think the thing to remember here is we are talking mass produced guitars..
There will only be a small percentage of mass produced guitars that will sound any good just by happen chance the planets all line up in the building process..

All mass produced guitar companies produce a rather large percentage of average sounding instruments.
It would be a huge gamble to buy before playing.