Thread: polishing hard shellac

Now correct me if I am wrong Mike, but is this thread the same as U-Beaut needs a bigger factory Hard shellac.?
Now there was a few problems with the old formula causing crazing.
But from what I have read the new formula has plasticiser added to the cured finish to combat crazing on the thin walls of musical instruments, and as I stated on the other thread if L.M.I are now selling this product it must be good and I would say Neil has had tests done before putting this on the market.
Regards Bob

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Now correct me if I am wrong Mike, but is this thread the same as U-Beaut needs a bigger factory Hard shellac.?
Now there was a few problems with the old formula causing crazing.
But from what I have read the new formula has plasticiser added to the cured finish to combat crazing on the thin walls of musical instruments, and as I stated on the other thread if L.M.I are now selling this product it must be good and I would say Neil has had tests done before putting this on the market.
Regards Bob

Yes that was the thread, and I`m still delighted with the product, didn`t check to see when that thread about the crazing was posted, maybe Neil`s was response to the gentleman was about the old formula. Threw a bit of a scare in me as I didn`t want to ruin what`s turning out to be a beautifull finish. Thought maybe any polish other than Neil`s EEE might change the structure of the shellac. I did pose some questions to LMI before joining this forum about the shellac and their answer was it behaves like normal shellac. I think their very mistaken, it`s a hundred times better. Me thinks I`ll just order some EEE to be safe but I wasn`t sure how long to let the shellac cure before applying it Mike

Hi Mike,
Not 100% sure, but I would say that Neil is still on his Christmas break.
Hopefully when he returns he will jump into this thread and post his test reports on the shellac, as I like to see Australian products go well in the world market.
Regards Bob

Mike question is your build, Acoustic or solid body.
Any chance of seeing a few photos, I am interested to see what the finish looks like.
Bob

Mike I found your post in the finishing forum and note you build electric, I note that you added a small amount of olive oil to the finish.
Would this not leave a rancid smell as the oil go's off.?
Regards Bob

Hi Mike,

If you are spiriting off vigorously enough you wont need to polish. In my experience every session from the second onwards needs to be polished as you finish up. No cutting compounds needed. Crazing has never been a problem for me but I have always used Linseed oil in the rubber.

As long as the Olive Oil is extra virgin and contains no Vitamin E it should be OK BoB, it gets trapped in the matrix from what I can tell,

BTW how do make extra virgin olive oil?










wait for it......












you use extra ugly olives boom, boom!

Happy New Year Sebastiaan,

I came across a thread where Neil recommended to someone using linseed oil to switch to parafin oil, so I tried it and found it to be superior to the olive oil. I`m building a solid body and if I can figure out how to get some pictures posted I`ll do so. I don`t think it`s going to take much polishing, just a few places where it`s hard to get the rubber into. The neck is almost done and shines like a sheet of glass. I started working on the skill of french polishing about a year ago, practicing whenever I got a chance, it`s a tough skill to develope just by reading articles. Fortunately I`m persistant and kept going despite many setbacks. The thing I like about Neil`s product and the reason I think it will take of like a rocket here in the states is that it is so forgiving, it`s pretty tough to screw it up. I think a lot more people who thought it was difficult a skill to master will give it try once word gets out. Neil has obviosly put some time into developing a product line that works together so I was concerned about using another company`s product that might have a reaction with the hard shellac. I was most concerned about using any polish to soon and messing up the work I`ve done. For now if you would like to see some pictures of the guitars I`m building you can go to my website www.heartstringsguitars.com Thanks for the help Mike

Mike you should leave the peice alone for at least 3 week to allow the crosslinking process to fully cure.

As mentioned the hard shellac has a hardner and a plasticiser to allow the finish to move with the timber but still have a hard finish.

This will give you a very hard and durable surface.

To work prior to this could break down the surface tension and wreck the finish.

If needed a very light rub with 2000g wet and dry and a buff with traditional wax will bring it back up.

Generally no need unless you work in a dusty environment.

This is much the same with most finishes which should be left alone for a short period so they will fully cure

I used the old formula hard Shellac on a classical and had the crazing problem. Haven't used the new formula yet.

As far as oils go.....I've gone from olive oil to walnut oil and found the latter to be my cup of tea. With olive oil make sure it has no additives and make sure its fresh.

Originally Posted by Jim Carroll

Mike you should leave the peice alone for at least 3 week to allow the crosslinking process to fully cure.

As mentioned the hard shellac has a hardner and a plasticiser to allow the finish to move with the timber but still have a hard finish.

This will give you a very hard and durable surface.

To work prior to this could break down the surface tension and wreck the finish.

If needed a very light rub with 2000g wet and dry and a buff with traditional wax will bring it back up.

Generally no need unless you work in a dusty environment.

This is much the same with most finishes which should be left alone for a short period so they will fully cure

Thanks Jim, that`s what I`ll do, can`t wait to see the final results as it`s already looking fantastic and the total time to apply this finish will be far less than a lacquer finish.

The crazing problem has nothing to do with how thin the wood is, or which oil you used while french polishing (I sprayed). Otherwise I wouldn't see crazing on the sides of my headstock now would I? The crazing is so bad on the sides of my guitar that whole patches have just flaked off, looks like the guitar I spent a year building has friggin mange. I have to pull the neck off and completely refinish with something suited to the purpose.

Bob, saying that 'if LMI sell it, it must be good' is about the dumbest thing I've read all week.

Paul, you forgot to say what product you used was it U Beaut hard Shellac.?
from what I have read there was crazing with the old formula.
But the formula has now changed and improved.
As for my comment if LMI sell it, it must be good.
Well from all I read about them, they seem like a reputable company.So for you to say my comment is the dumbest thing you have read all week, well your answer is the dumbest answer I have read.
Please explain the product you used and how long ago it was done.
Regards,Bob

Originally Posted by Paul B

The crazing problem has nothing to do with how thin the wood is, or which oil you used while french polishing (I sprayed). Otherwise I wouldn't see crazing on the sides of my headstock now would I? The crazing is so bad on the sides of my guitar that whole patches have just flaked off, looks like the guitar I spent a year building has friggin mange. I have to pull the neck off and completely refinish with something suited to the purpose.

Bob, saying that 'if LMI sell it, it must be good' is about the dumbest thing I've read all week.

I'll back up Paul's comments regarding the crazing on guitars finished with Ubeaut Hard Shellac. I used the product on a couple of acoustics (classical and a 12 string) I French Polished about 2 years ago. Like Paul the shellac was applied to parts of the guitar that exhibit little dimensional variation due to moisture uptake /loss (eg headstock). I also work in a climate controlled workshop where humidity is a steady 45 - 50%. Additionally the wood I work with sits in my workshop for at least 12 months before I use it.

I'm told the formula of Hard Shellac has been changed to alleviate the crazing issues but I have yet to try the new formula product. After having to take the finish back to bare wood at least twice on each instrument in an effort to work out what was causing the crazing I've developed a bit of a reluctance to trying the new product and am currently french polishing with shellac I make up myself from flakes imported from a luthiers supply house. Im an amateur so the time spent trouble shooting finish problems is an inconvenience. For a luthier building as a living the time spent equates to lost profit. I wont be trying Hard Shellac again until I hear from fellow luthiers who have French Polished with the product and not had problems.

Cheers Martin

Well as you say Martin, you have also had problems with the old formula.
So I reckon it's time for Neil to jump in here, and see if he has any results, tests, comments, Etc, with the new formula is there any one out there that has used the new formula.?
Cheers Bob