WIP: Shaker Table with Benches

I'm planning a summer project of building a dinning table.

I found this table by Mark Lackley on finewoodworking.com.
Mark's website
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...1087_01_xl.jpg
http://www.lackley.com/shopping_onli...rry_full-1.jpg
http://www.lackley.com/shopping_onli...erry_bbend.jpg
http://www.lackley.com/shopping_onli...alnut_side.jpg

I liked a few things about this. It's relatively simple. It's a nice nonobtrusive shaker style. And I think benches will be much better then chairs for the time I have avalible. And makes it a bit more community feel.

The first step is to come up with plans.

I quickly had a play in sketchup...


Any suggestions on design improvements welcome.

I've been experimenting with the legs.
Struggle to have a nice taper, fine lines, without compromising strength.

Nice looking table:2tsup:. Should be an interesting but straight forward build.
My only concern would be the strength left in the radically curved foot on each leg/support. I noticed in the 2 photos the grain is oriented in different directions. I don't know which would ultimately stronger?
If I was trying the same thing I'd either laminate 2 pieces together with grain running 90* apart, or settle on a less radically curved member. Maybe I just don't trust cutting across the short grain!

Good luck,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy Mac

My only concern would be the strength left in the radically curved foot on each leg/support.

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:iagree: IMHO the bottom section of the legs don't seem to match the design of the top section.

Wot Andy Mac noted. Those more highly curved feet are going to have weak points with sections of short grain - not a good look on a full-size table meant to take everyday knocks. IMO, a couple of the examples you posted have feet which don't look like they'll make the long haul. The most satisfactory result will come from choosing pieces which have curved grain approaching the curves you want. That way you can keep the bulk down without sacrificing too much strength.

The Shakers kept things pretty simple, as a rule, and in any case, I reckon the straighter feet match the style of the table better - curved feet seem to ask for turned legs & a generally more organic shape.

My 2c :U

Found these on the net.

Well I certainly don't want in 10 years time someone to think it's a brilliant thing to stand on and break a leg. (Their's or the table's!)

Flat would be simpler, waste less wood, be faster to make.... but where's the fun in that.

The width of the wood is a issue. I need it strong. However, the appeal of shaker furniture is the slender and thin lines.

Thickness wise. I was aiming for around 40-45mm. The legs in those plans are 2" (50mm) in the middle and 1 5/8 at the ends (~40mm).

Haven't got to wood choice yet. I was thinking a redish hardwood. Something like jarrah or redgum. Which are strong woods and I 'think' should handle the curve.

Look BozInOz, the strength of timber comes from the bond between the wood fibres as different woods have different strengths, I lernt this at civil engineering school some years ago and we tested different types of wood until they failed. As you can see from your diagrams of the shaker table and benches that they don't seem to have a problem with timber strength at the feet end. Using a horizontal grain would give generally good strength rather than vertical, but as you can see the shakers have used both. A hardwood would be best that has a high strength rating for the best durability. I think you should just go ahead and make one, I think you will not be dissapointed and if someone breaks it you have the skills to fix it.:D:D

A few design refinements.
Still hard to balance strength and chunky-ness.

Can someone explain the joint that connects the leg to the foot? From the first pictures I can see a couple of plugged holes, but wouldn't cutting a mortice in the centre of the foot make it really weak? And it seems to have the grain vertical across the short section, so that'd be really weak too?

BTW, anyone know what sort of wood the guy in Fine Woodworker used? Swmbo thought it might be a good long term project for me until I suggested there would be a thousand or two of wood to buy first...

The one in fine woodworking, like most american woodworking, is made of maple. Link On his website he a version made in cherry and one in walnut. Which has vertical grain pattern.

I'm trying work out the overall aesthetic first. My plan was a mortise and tenon, with dowel to lock the joint, as in pic. At the moment the foot is 40mm thick and the leg 30, even a 20mm mortise will have 10mm each side. It doesn't have to be a through tenon either.

Cost. My supplier deals mainly with slabs, so as being quite rough and more work for me, it's cheaper. :;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BozInOz

The one in fine woodworking, like most american woodworking, is made of maple. Link On his website he a version made in cherry and one in walnut. Which has vertical grain pattern.

I'm trying work out the overall aesthetic first. My plan was a mortise and tenon, with dowel to lock the joint, as in pic. At the moment the foot is 40mm thick and the leg 30, even a 20mm mortise will have 10mm each side. It doesn't have to be a through tenon either.

Cost. My supplier deals mainly with slabs, so as being quite rough and more work for me, it's cheaper. :;

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So how much is cheaper? How much should I budget to buy enough to make the table and benches out of a decent hardwood?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanW

Wot Andy Mac noted. Those more highly curved feet are going to have weak points with sections of short grain - not a good look on a full-size table meant to take everyday knocks.

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It's possible to steam the wood then bend it. Basically, the seamer's a length of pipe (I think Google told me PVC tends to melt), maybe some galvanised downpipe, and something to boil the water. One hour per 25mm of thickness is the timing. Google "how to bend" steam timer. John A Walton's book, "Woodwork in Theory and Practice" (I bought one in Dymocks a few months ago) has some info.

Note, some senior members might have had it as a textbook, esp in ACT/NSW. It has been revised since then.

fwiw I'm not keen on those feet either.,

http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?107

Hi Boz, great design. I would maybe go for some Tasie Blackwood or similar, if you choose your stock well you should be able to find some sections of curved grain that would give somewhere near the curve you are after (you could find a curved limb and slice it too). Or like Johnc said, a bit of steam and a bend. Looks like a fun project, keep sexy the curves.

http://www.newyankee.com/photos1/107.jpg
Norm's Trestle Table...

I'm always up for a bit of norm tv. That table does look very chunky. So chunky you can carve it.

Bending eh?
Wasn't planning on it for this project. Was going to use the inside waste to form the legs on one of the benches.

Here's the latest.
Bench plans now up. Base is a scaled down version of the table. 60% from memory. The top of the base leg needed to be redesigned to fit and extra strength. Legs shift so benches can be tucked under. Hope bench doesn't bow in the middle.

Other suggestions welcome.

Updates.

• Adjusted height of bench and table 460mm and 750mm.
• Made bench leg slightly thicker at the base.
• Added a third bench leg. Not sure about this.

All looks good (not too fussed on central leg tho) Love those feet for the table and stools, think they are stronger than they appear. How far apart are the legs on the stools?

Donna

Yeah, I'm not fussed with the central leg. Bench is 30mm thick. Don't want it bending with 4 "larger" people on it.
Bench is 1700mm long, with 1240mm between two outside legs to clear the table legs.


https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...1&d=1223955906

This is the weakest point in the design. Today I made it 10mm higher. You can see the old and new lines. This takes the previous 24mm section to 34mm.
I hope to use 40mm thick wood.

Depends on timber. Going shopping tomorrow. I'd love redgum or jarrah or something real heavy and hard, but see how the budget stretches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BozInOz

Yeah, I'm not fussed with the central leg. Bench is 30mm thick. Don't want it bending with 4 fat people on it.
<snip>
I'd love redgum or jarrah or something real heavy and hard, but see how the budget stretches.

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Redgum? I grew up on a farm, where the main trees were Jarrah, Redgum and Karri. If you use _that_ redgum, you will surely park your posterior on the pavement.

Karri would be nice, and I believe it can be grown in plantations.

Shopping list.
I think I've got everything listed.
I'll buy 40mm for most of it, aiming for a final size of 30-35mm milled.
For the curves, 50mm, aiming for 40-45mm milled.
I do like this being on holidays.

I dont think you will get four larger people on your stools, they simply arent long enough. If you were worried about them bending in the middle which I dont think they will do, you could either a) put your lengthwise brace up higher so it sits just under the seat, or b) put a cleat in the middle under the seat that sits on the brace.

Donna

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1224056468

I've been shopping. Borrowed a friend's 4x4 and heading to out to Boutique Timbers. Chatted to Mal about what I wanted to build and my budget.

There was a few options and the most appealing was Coastal Blackbutt.

Nice boards, 50mm thick, 3m long, 400mm wide at one end 300mm at the other. The fact it was locally grown also had some appeal.

Took four home for $300. (Not bad as I went out with a budget of $500.)

Got the old chalk out. There won't be much left over but it all fitted.

(The leach was free.)

Discussion at Club Meeting
I chatted to a few blokes at the club meeting on saturday. A few mentioned concerns about the strength of the curved legs. One thought it would be too heavy. Another thought that the curved leg would be a trip hazard as you try to shuffle onto the bench.

The Plan
1. Top
2. Table legs
3. Benches

Progress
1. Rough cut major sections
2. Realised that blackbutt is heavy
3. Top - 37cm 18cm 37cm boards
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1224485111
4. Realised that blackbutt is heavy
5. Top - 18, 18, 18, 18, 18 (and still heavy but much easier to move)
6. Dressed 2 of 5 boards, and breadboards. Down to 35mm. (making some 7mm panels for a future project). Bad twist in one board hope it's stable now.

Next Step
1. Mortise breadboards
2. Finish dressing top
3. Sliding dowel joinery and breadboards
4. Glue

Fun Fun Fun...

Having another look at the bench leg. The original design is jsut too thin.
Here's a few re-designs. Comments welcome.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1224835364

Just a quick post with some progress...

I've never seen joinery like this used on a tabletop but it seemed good to me. 4 x 80cm 1/2" tas oak dowel run continuous through the top. I used a stanley 59 dowel jig and drilled from both sides with a 1/2" bit. To overcome expansion problems, the dowel is not glued, but rather sanded, shellaced, and waxed... so hopefully it'll slide. I wanted substantial size dowel and thought this would prevent cupping better then discontinuous dowel.

(Breadboards to come.)

Underside flattened to a reasonable amount.
1/3 of the top has been flattened with my new no7.

Slow Progress....

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1225683619

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1225683619

Here is a set of plans for you to modify to your specifications and design preferances.
http://www.ibiblio.org/twa/plans/pla...estletable.pdf :2tsup:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1226392173

Lessons learned:

1. Time spent milling is time saved. Some imperfections in jointing became very obvious upon attaching the breadboards.
2. Breadboard tennons need to be long. Especially if you want to put dowel in them pullin on the short grain. Long tennons weakens the mortise piece. Solution, multiple tennons.

Table is complete.

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I know this is an old old thread... but I'm building my second shaker table one... very similar, a little more complex... Check out the new thread.
Anniversary Shaker Table