Electrics on a Boley 5LZ lathe

[philbur]

Hi Phil,
Welcome, nice looking set up.
Things have moved forward with Boley.
Stuart

Thanks for the welcome Stuart.

Phil

[variant22]

Phil

Welcome Phil. I was hoping you were still part of the Boley fold given you are the Boley 5LZ expert .

I have had a few issues with my 5LZ. It was purchased as a project. There are witness marks on just about every nut and bolt. Someone has had fun pulling it apart! I am not sure if they were in search of a problem or if they were just exploring.

I purchased a 5hp phase converter with booster circuit to handle amp-rush. My 5LZ did not like it and would not run at high speed and certainly not high-speed reverse. I decided to retro-fit a VFD ensuring everything is reversible (back to 3 phase). I had a moment of weakness where I was thinking of modifying a piece (tapered motor pulley bore) but thankfully PDW talked me down. Instead I pulled down my replacement WEG motor and reduced the shaft diameter.

Anyway, my 5LZ still does not want to reverse at high speed. I am not sure if the bearing(?) slipping in the headstock is causing excessive stress on the motor. When I reverse the following (see photo) slips at least 1/2 a rotation - is this normal? I see it has little brass pieces within as though they are there to stop slippage?

slipping_when_in_reverse.jpg IMG_0376.jpg

My flat belt also wanders and at times slips off. I might have to shim the clutch mount (possibly the clutch/motor mount) to get it to run true. It hunts around and sits to the side of the pulley as seen in the above photo.

[philbur]

Do you have the attached headstock assembly drawing?

Is the housing that goes over the bearing and gears missing or is it just that you have removed it. Judging by the oil splash on the inside of the cover you have run it without the top bearing housing in place which, if the oil level is correct it should have sprayed oil everywhere?

The outer bearing housing you have arrowed should not rotate but I guess it might if you run it without the top housing in place.

You need to be clearer when you say reverse at high speed, do you mean motor in reverse, spindle in reverse. 3500 rpm or high gear on lever B.

Other reasons the spindle might bind (at high speed) are the plain journal bearings have been over tightened or the incorrect oil (to viscous) has been used in the main plain bearings and the plain bearing the collet closer bearing.
As the lathe has previously been messed with it might be best to strip the headstock down and check everything. It’s less difficult than it looks but there are a couple of things that might catch you out.

[philbur]

I'm curious as to how that large oiler on the left end of the headstock interfaces with the top cover?

Phil

[philbur]

My flat belt also wanders and at times slips off. I might have to shim the clutch mount (possibly the clutch/motor mount) to get it to run true. It hunts around and sits to the side of the pulley as seen in the above photo.

Those pulleys should be crowned (domed in the middle) it doesn't appear in the photos that they are.

[philbur]

Anyway, my 5LZ still does not want to reverse at high speed. I am not sure if the bearing(?) slipping in the headstock is causing excessive stress on the motor. When I reverse the following (see photo) slips at least 1/2 a rotation - is this normal? I see it has little brass pieces within as though they are there to stop slippage?
.

I just took a look at my pulley bearing, it doesn't have those brass inserts. Those gear teeth look very dry, I assume you have oil in there, upto the sight glass.

Phil

[variant22]

Also if you slacken the drive belt by raising the motor using the jacking screws inside the end cover, and position lever B in the middle, the pulley should rotate freely on its bearings separately from the spindle. You should be able to feel if the pulley bearings or anything else is binding. The only point of fixed contact between the pulley and the spindle is the drive gears to the right hand end.

I have done this when the belt slipped off It is free but slight notch in one point. Easy to turn by hand but can feel some interference at one point. The noise from the rear of the headstock when @ 1:1 (via B) is a bit of a worry. As I change the pulley speed the noise gets faster. Certainly something not right there. It is smooth in 1:4 (via B).

The righthand bearing is feed with oil from the drive gear reservoir. The left pulley bearing is feed with oil via the oil nipple on top of the left plain spindle bearing housing. It is possible to refit the pulley assembly with the oil port in the pulley miss-aligned by 180 degrees. So if it has previously been messed with ..................!

It is interesting that you mentioned that the right bearing is feed by oil from the gear reservoir. I was under the impression that the reservoir was for run-off of the spindle bearing lightweight oil? Should I fill this with ISO46? The manual mentions to drain it off when it gets up high on the sight glass.

I will need to check the left pulley bearing to check the alignment - thanks for mentioning this.

I have been confused about the oiling for the 5LZ. The manual only talks about filling the clutch gearbox. There is no mention from what I can see about filling the feed gear box, or the headstock where the sight glass is. The manual talks about giving it a few pumps of oil at various intervals, but I can't spot where it tells to fill these? I am happy to fill them - ISO46?

I am running Castrol Hyspin 5 which is close to what the manual recommends. There is a lack of availability here in Australia of this lightweight spindle oil. My headstock is getting quite warm up near the spindle nose. Where I have the over-sized oiler it is nice and cool.. where the other oiler (OEM?) it gets hot. I am not really seeing how that oiler works. It could be a retro-fit from the previous owner.

[variant22]

Do you have the attached headstock assembly drawing?

Yes. I have the manual - likely your oringinal upload? Thank you for this. It has been a massive help. As a side note my 5LZ is a slightly different vintage to yours. The clutch is slightly different regarding the position of the brush for the brake.

Is the housing that goes over the bearing and gears missing or is it just that you have removed it. Judging by the oil splash on the inside of the cover you have run it without the top bearing housing in place which, if the oil level is correct it should have sprayed oil everywhere?

I removed it to see what was going on. It has been hard to engage lever B. It seems like the brass positioning lever is slightly misaligned. I also noticed a threaded hole near it (directly to the right of the brass mount in the photo below) that has nothing in it!

IMG_0381.jpg

No oil spray as there was grease in there on the big bearing!! It is thick black grease.

IMG_0378.jpg

The gears had some residual oil on them from a light oiling. I was only testing short runs. I am unsure (as mentioned previously) about what oil should go in here and if I should fill to sight glass?

Other reasons the spindle might bind (at high speed) are the plain journal bearings have been over tightened or the incorrect oil (to viscous) has been used in the main plain bearings and the plain bearing the collet closer bearing.

When I received the machine it had no oil in it at all. The headstock lock nuts all have witness marks on them. There is every likelihood that they have been tightened incorrectly. That said, I have no idea how to gauge correct tightness?

I am running Castrol Hyspin 5 - ISO 5 high speed spindle oil. That does not mean the previous owner(s) used the correct oil. I noticed the clutch grease nipple (on the front pulley) had grease in it and not oil.

As the lathe has previously been messed with it might be best to strip the headstock down and check everything. It’s less difficult than it looks but there are a couple of things that might catch you out.

Agreed. I need to strip it down and find out what is going on with it.

I'm curious as to how that large oiler on the left end of the headstock interfaces with the top cover?

It doesn't interact with the cover, it interferes with it . I had it kicking around here and decided to make an adapter and fit for my testing. The alternative was to have no oiling at all back there. For some reason the rear oiler was missing. No plug in the hole, just open for debris to fill. I now have the task of finding a low-profile oiler to suit.

Those pulleys should be crowned (domed in the middle) it doesn't appear in the photos that they are.

They seem pretty flat. By eye I cannot see any doming . I am not sure the flat belt is OEM. It is pretty tatty. The clutch/motor mount is fully extended and the belt is not that tight. Any ideas where I would get a replacement flat belt to suit?

[Michael G]

They seem pretty flat. By eye I cannot see any doming. I am not sure the flat belt is OEM. It is pretty tatty. The clutch/motor mount is fully extended and the belt is not that tight. Any ideas where I would get a replacement flat belt to suit?

The crown on a flat belt pulley is not much - a few thou depending on size. Best thing to do is put a straight edge across them (150mm rule for example) and see whether there is light under the ends.
I get (endless) flat belts from Rydells. Won't be so bad if you are stripping the headstock as you will be dis-assembling it anyway and can install the belt. Not necessarily cheap though.

Michael

[variant22]

I really like the 5LZ, but there are a few things that are just a little too smart. One being how they fasten the compound to the cross slide. They use an inverted V.. like "^" for the t-slot. Of course mine are missing, so I have to machine a few replacements.

IMG_0389.jpg

[variant22]

The crown on a flat belt pulley is not much - a few thou depending on size. Best thing to do is put a straight edge across them (150mm rule for example) and see whether there is light under the ends.
I get (endless) flat belts from Rydells. Won't be so bad if you are stripping the headstock as you will be dis-assembling it anyway and can install the belt. Not necessarily cheap though.

Michael

Thanks Michael. I have no idea about the height of the crown. Good to know what to look for.

Also thanks for the Rydells tip. I will be replacing the belt regardless of cost. The thing is not tight despite it maxing out the mount travel.

[variant22]

Phil any idea what the cylinder directly below my big brass oiler on the rear bearing is for? It has a socket head cap screw, but I am not sure of its purpose?

IMG_0375.jpg

[RayG]

Good to see you are making progress, it was a real shame the guy had started to pull it down and never finished, but you seem to be getting it together.

Here's a flat belt supplier, I got some belts for the Schaffner Cylindrical Grinder from them as well as some locally, the ones from the ebay supplier were better quality and seamless joins when compared with the local ones.

http://stores.ebay.com/Ultimate-Indu..._sid=715393798

[philbur]

Phil any idea what the cylinder directly below my big brass oiler on the rear bearing is for? It has a socket head cap screw, but I am not sure of its purpose?

IMG_0375.jpg

Don't konw the reason for the extension, mine doesn't have it but the bolt clamps the collet closer lever constraining post. The rear bolt clamps the collet closer lever pivot post. Does it look like a user addition.

[philbur]

I have done this when the belt slipped off It is free but slight notch in one point. Easy to turn by hand but can feel some interference at one point. The noise from the rear of the headstock when @ 1:1 (via B) is a bit of a worry. As I change the pulley speed the noise gets faster. Certainly something not right there. It is smooth in 1:4 (via B).

Mine is a bit noisier with B in 1:4 due to the extra gear spinning. It is very quite in 1:1.

It is interesting that you mentioned that the right bearing is feed by oil from the gear reservoir. I was under the impression that the reservoir was for run-off of the spindle bearing lightweight oil? Should I fill this with ISO46? The manual mentions to drain it off when it gets up high on the sight glass. .

Yes 46. its not in the manual but you can deduce the need to fill it from the lube chart. Its strange that the front pulley bearing appears to have grease in it. How did it get there. Possibly it was packed by the previous user. I think you will need to strip it and clean out the grease. It's likely that the previous user pumped grease in all the "oil" nipples. I think there is something like 30 of them.

I have been confused about the oiling for the 5LZ. The manual only talks about filling the clutch gearbox. There is no mention from what I can see about filling the feed gear box, or the headstock where the sight glass is. The manual talks about giving it a few pumps of oil at various intervals, but I can't spot where it tells to fill these? I am happy to fill them - ISO46?.

The fill point for the feed gear box is item 52 on the lube chart. For the headstock filling is n ot directly referenced but is kinda inferred. Fill it with 46 halfway up the sight glass.

I am running Castrol Hyspin 5 which is close to what the manual recommends. There is a lack of availability here in Australia of this lightweight spindle oil. My headstock is getting quite warm up near the spindle nose. Where I have the over-sized oiler it is nice and cool.. where the other oiler (OEM?) it gets hot. I am not really seeing how that oiler works. It could be a retro-fit from the previous owner.

For testing purposes you could remove that front "oiler" and feed oil directly into the open hole. 3500 rpm is I think just about the limit for these pain bearings so they are very prone to seizing if not correctly set up and lubricated.