Saw blades again and an ugly incident

[barri]

I've just had an unfortunate incident. The tool place I get my blades sharpened, actually they outsource, ruined the geometry of the blade. I am in the process of getting them to admit liability and buy me a new blade but neither the tool shop or sharpening business admit fault at the moment. Wish me luck! I have two freud P410T thin kerf blades 5/8 arbor and alternate when one gets a little blunt. Love 'em. I normally have no problems with this business.

Anyway, given that I have to buy another blade I'm a little up in the air on which one. I can get the same blade from Major woodworking for about $130 delivered or from Amazon for $109 delivered or CMT Ultra thin kerf (30mm arbor) from carbatec for $89 not delivered or an equivalent from Amazon (5/8 arbor) for $68 delivered. Amazon wins on all fronts including the 5/8 arbor.

So it must be thin kerf, top quality, general purpose 40 to 50 teeth and preferably 5/8 arbor but I know you can get reducer bushings. I will buy from Amazon and may even buy 2 to get better value.

CMT vs Freud or any other suggestions.

[Mobyturns]

It pays to ask dumb questions like - can you sharpen HATB blades?

I think it is a big ask to expect a local saw sharpener to replicate "This one-of-a-kind tooth geometry includes a 30 degree Hi-ATB, a double grind design, and an Axial Shear Face Grind to produce the ultimate polished finish in ripping and crosscutting applications with minimal resistance as it glides through in the material."

[barri]

Good point. Hadn't thought of that but there were some parts of the blade that were clearly bent. Even the tool shop guy could see it. So if a get a favorable resolution to this or not, I still need a new blade(s).

[aldav]

It pays to ask dumb questions like - can you sharpen HATB blades?

I think it is a big ask to expect a local saw sharpener to replicate "This one-of-a-kind tooth geometry includes a 30 degree Hi-ATB, a double grind design, and an Axial Shear Face Grind to produce the ultimate polished finish in ripping and crosscutting applications with minimal resistance as it glides through in the material."

Aren't they only grinding the front of the tooth? The angle of the top bevel shouldn't make any difference. If they couldn't sharpen it they should have simply said so and given it back to the OP. As for it being 'bent' I think this demonstrates a level of incompetence that is unacceptable for a professional sharpening service.

I use Freud blades, but not combination, all rounders like the P410. Yes, I know other forum members swear by them.

[Mr Brush]

These are the best blades I own...all 5/8" arbor, thin kerf, work brilliantly for both ripping and crosscutting.

Combination Saw Blades - Table Saw Blades - Table Saw - Sawing

They run rings around the Freud Fusion blade I already had, which now hardly ever gets used. One extra benefit of the Infinity blades is that they give a perfectly flat-bottomed kerf, which is useful for trenching cuts. My local sharpening service (Leuco, Sydney) have touched them up a couple of times without problems, but I'm careful to always write "FACE GRIND ONLY" on the boxes before I send them in.

[Colin62]

It pays to ask dumb questions like - can you sharpen HATB blades?

I think it is a big ask to expect a local saw sharpener to replicate "This one-of-a-kind tooth geometry includes a 30 degree Hi-ATB, a double grind design, and an Axial Shear Face Grind to produce the ultimate polished finish in ripping and crosscutting applications with minimal resistance as it glides through in the material."

You shouldn't need to ask them - if they can't do the job, then they should say so and possibly suggest somewhere that can. If they accepted the job and then made a hash of it, it's their responsibility to make it right.

[barri]

These are the best blades I own...all 5/8" arbor, thin kerf, work brilliantly for both ripping and crosscutting.

Combination Saw Blades - Table Saw Blades - Table Saw - Sawing

They run rings around the Freud Fusion blade I already had, which now hardly ever gets used. One extra benefit of the Infinity blades is that they give a perfectly flat-bottomed kerf, which is useful for trenching cuts. .

Very expensive though. They may not be the best value out there.

[Lyle]

I had a similar experience with a supposed saw doctor expert. When I picked up the blade and pointed out that it was ruined all they said was "we only touched it up lightly ". An obvious stuff up. But I had no satisfaction and had to walk away. My personal satisfaction was to give them bad word of mouth advertising.
But watching this with interest looking for a replacement blade.

[barri]

CMT P10050 ITK Plus Combination Saw Blade, 10 x 50 Teeth, 1FTG+ 4ATB Teeth with Shear with 5/8-Inch bore

Two of these from Amazon delivered is only $129.58. That seems like great value. If only I had a crystal ball that would tell me the cut is as smooth as the freud P410T. and last just as long

BTW Carbatec don't stock exactly these and their price on CMTs generally is too high. 30mm arbors don't excite me either

[FenceFurniture]

Very expensive though. They may not be the best value out there.

That would depend on the size of the chunk of carbide used for the teeth. Bigger chunks give many more sharpenings, and the Americans tend to use bigger chunks.

Lower price doesn't necessarily mean better value.

[elanjacobs]

Aren't they only grinding the front of the tooth? The angle of the top bevel shouldn't make any difference.

All our blades come back sharpened top and face. A competent saw doctor should be able to work to any geometry, the grinders are all fully adjustable and many larger places use cnc grinders now.

[woodPixel]

I use the Freuds all the time.... The P410, P410T and P412.

The 412 is an evil beast that spin hard and cuts anything. It uses a reducer bushing, but does have a very fine vibration as the reducer isn't perfect (it's a Freud reducer as well). I save it for the thick stuff.

The 410 is a wonderful all round blade that is used all day for cutting everything but expensive wood. For that stuff the P410T is used. The thin kerf is very thin and save a considerable amount of timber on multiple fine cuts.

They are all, unfortunately, bought from Amazon. I look at locals all the time before buying and it saddens me to spend overseas.

For sharpening, I take them to my local (Fitches Fyshwick Canberra) and sticky tape the geometry diagram every time. They take off only a few atoms and do a good job. The 410T is on its 4th sharpen and looks fantastic with heaps of meat left (I compare it against a reserve spare one).

[barri]

As in my OP I love the P410Ts but can't buy locally at a competitive price. In fact local prices are awful on most good quality blades. I just read a whole pile of comments about blades on US websites. Freud, Forrest, CMT, Infinity are all mentioned favorably. It seems very subjective. There are hundreds of reviews on amazon on Freud blades compared with CMT with less than 20 on most of their blades. I don't know what that means but nearly all of them are rated 4 stars or higher. Anyone got CMTs, probably from carbatec, that can offer an opinion.

[Mobyturns]

I have a range of CMT's and Freud's. Both brands perform quite satisfactorily for me. I probably use the CMT's most but then I'm a woodturner who likes to cut up wood, glue it back together then turn it.

[Mobyturns]

Good point. Hadn't thought of that but there were some parts of the blade that were clearly bent. Even the tool shop guy could see it. So if a get a favorable resolution to this or not, I still need a new blade(s).

We have two specialist saw / tool sharpening services here plus a few others who dabble imo and depending upon who you talk to determines the rating of the two specialist services. Ive heard both good and bad about both.

It does pay to give clear instructions though. I have a mulcher that uses a single blade similar to a planer blade. When I took in two of them for sharpening, one well used, the other near new, the sharpening service balanced them for me. Gee thanks mate, it only uses one.

ps If you want to see "scary sharp" edges - have a look at the keenness of the edges produced on guillotine blades for print shops. The sharpening service I use sharpens them for the local printers - a lot of wood workers would be happy to achieve the edge on the "blunt" ones in for sharpening.