Fitting out a new (small) shed.

[Lappa]

Certainly is a tall unit!
the problem is you have to get the air out so reducing the size of the filter bags could create back pressure. One way may be to use cloth bags on the bottom instead of plastic bags which could allow you to use smaller filter bags on top and keep the filter surface area the same.

[Jeffen]

G'day,

one thing to keep in mind is power requirements - what power do you have in your shed?
Is it a dedicated circuit or is it shared with a house circuit?
Can it support a 3HP dusty + whatever machine you are using + lights + heating/cooling etc?

Good luck!

Jeff

[BobL]

So I'm looking at the Sherwood DC 2900 here
It states on the page that it is 2600mm high. That's pretty tall. I want to build a separate enclosure next to the shed and one to fit this thing would be huge. Would there be any reason I couldn't reduce that height by altering the filter bag size?

I would look ay reducing the collection bags size first. Unless you are thicknessing many meters of timber you won't fill up two full bags that quickly.

Now about the enclosure. I like the idea of your baffle box Bob and want to implement one for my enclosure. How do you keep pests out of it? I imagine a mesh screen would limit the airflow.

No mesh needed. The only critters I see in mine are a few spiders. I think the noise and high air flow keeps the others away.

As far as mesh goes you might like to look at this
Air flow calibration measurements

[ian]

If the Dc is permanently mounted in an external enclosure, you could remove the 4 verticals and mount the unit to the frame of the enclosure and then position a collection bin under the filter bags. The bin could be on wheels. Of course the bin would need to seal to the existing "rings" below the filter bags, but that shouldn't be too difficult, nor messy in the event the seal is not "perfect" given the unit is outside the shed.

Your biggest issue will be emptying the collection bin without getting covered in dust. I think I would source a suitable (or at least workable) liner solution before I went too much further.

[BobL]

If the Dc is permanently mounted in an external enclosure, you could remove the 4 verticals and mount the unit to the frame of the enclosure . . . .

I found this was a good way to transfer noise/vibe from the DC to the enclosure and make it louder than it was when free standing. No amount of damping (rubber/springs etc) between the two would significantly reduced the noise and I even had an guy specialising in acoustics at work look at the situation and the easiest was was to not suspend the DC on the walls of the enclosure. In the end I made some shorter legs and the DC sits free standing . I used the same bags and cut the first lot of bags shorter but now I don't cut them and they sit a bit rucked up on the paved floor of the enclosure.

[Lappa]

To use smaller collection bags and reduce the overall height, you are going to have to
a) cut the uprights to lower the separator which I'd be reluctant to do on a new unit - warranty
b) make new uprights - probably the best option if you go down that route

[twigga]

I’m new here but have been lurking for a while.

I’m in the process of setting up a workshop and was trying to address the issue of dust. I came here looking for answers but I fell down the “Bill Pentz Rabbit Hole”

"Bill Pentz rabbit hole..." ROFL Ive fallen down it a couple of times myself.
also Ive been lurking here for quite a bit longer, thought id finally get around to making a first post.

i find myself in a similar situation. enjoying making stuff from wood and getting a little more serious. got financial approval to buy a bandsaw, and got to thinking about dust collection, and fell down the rabbit hole again. after much reading of bill and other USA based forums i figured out what i thought would be best, then I find that all the good advice is written here in short simple terms. should have started searching closer to home! (thanks BobL and others)
I was already planning a lean-to outside the shed for drying timber, now planning to put the dusty in that now. figured out that the cheap 1-2hp dusties wont cut the mustard and then the 3hp Y duct ones still not quite optimal and was wondering if i have to stump up the extra $$ to buy the newer designs though i see Bob was recommending those in this thread... so i have the answer already! i also found that woodfast has a similar design... which is shorter in height and slightly cheaper, not sure what the freight from SA is though and what the
Dust Extractors

also planning 6 inch pvc ducting, small ammount of flex as possible, modify ports etc. one question however, is it worth using some kind of trash can seperator of some kind before the dusty? you could even do it without elbows and flex like ive got in my exceedingly dodgy pic below...(to lazy to go find a pencil and draw old school or properly with sketchup)

dusty idea.jpg

just thinking about using 6 inch ducting in and out of the garbage can might be too much air flow and nothing stays put, and even if it does stay, what benefit (if any) are you getting for the loss of the airflow?

in all its more than double what i was planning to spend on dust collection but what price do you put on your health... prevention always cheaper (and better) than cure.

twig

[BobL]

"Bill Pentz rabbit hole..." ROFL Ive fallen down it a couple of times myself.
also Ive been lurking here for quite a bit longer, thought id finally get around to making a first post.

Welcome twig.

It appears you may not have fallen down the BP rabbit hole very far.
If you read it carefully you should have noted that BP, like myself, rabbits on incessantly about maximising "air flow". This is because airflow is essential to capture the finest dust which is what is more likely to affect wood workers health. Trash can separators are basically a turbulence box that get in the way of smooth air flow.
BP clearly says says trash can type separators rob a significant amout of air flow and they don't catch the really fine dust which continues to clog the filters. Most WW who use chip collectors do so to save on cleaning filters but if they want to maximise air flow they should clean their filters every time they empty their chip catcher.

[twigga]

its a big hole!
lots of information available which is interesting, but easy to forget without experience/experimentation, which is what I'm lacking which neither time nor finances permit, so hoping to gather some of the knowledge from you experts without having to re-invent the wheel so to speak.
I think i get the concepts of airflow, large diameter smooth ducting, long radius bends/junctions upgraded tool connections etc, I guess what was really thinking is does venting outside allow you just run with standard bag filters and no cyclone, or if the cyclone is essential, can you get some of the benefit of a cyclone by using a trashcan separator or weather this shortcut is too much of a compromise and things should just be done properly...?

[Cal]

I have started on my DC setup, see my thread. 3hp twin bag outside shed, 6" ducting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BobL]

It is indeed a big hole. FWIW I have been indirectly involved with air flow and dust measurements since 1983 and like anything, "the more you know, the less you realise you know". The converse applies to most (especially newbie) wood workers in that they know so little they think that there is nothing much to know about dust until they start getting into it.

Wood dust was only added to the National Report on Cancer as a carcinogenic substance in 2002. Only earlier this year has the impact of dust particles smaller than 2.5 microns been implicated in contributing to cardio vascular disease and is not considered the 5th leading cause of death in the world.

. . does venting outside allow you just run with standard bag filters and no cyclone, or if the cyclone is essential, can you get some of the benefit of a cyclone by using a trashcan separator or weather this shortcut is too much of a compromise and things should just be done properly...?

An efficient cyclone is useful at separating very fine dust from fine dust and chips. It does this at a cost of flow. Losing flow means you "never collected that dust to start wth and it remains in the shed" so you might well ask why bother?

BP cyclones are paired with 15-16" impellers and 4-5 HP motors because, even though they are quite efficient) they still lose about 20% of their total flow. BUT given they start out with extra flow capacity to start with they can easily afford to lose that flow.

Attaching chip catchers, or cyclones that are not well designed or properly mated to their impeller/motor combo, can result in up to 40% loss of flow - yes you will keep the filter bags cleaner for longer BUT the loss of flow means from the moment you started you left extra dust behind in the shed.

[twigga]

so reading between the lines, you can do without a cyclone, just as long as you are prepared to empty bags and clean filters more often?


and speaking of dust left behind in the shed, i have been cleaning the shed as am moving everything around to facilitate much shorter ducting runs, and there is buckets of dust even though the shed looked relatively clean...

[BobL]

so reading between the lines, you can do without a cyclone, just as long as you are prepared to empty bags and clean filters more often?

Yes - once you have used a good cyclone it's hard to go back to cleaning filters and every time I clean the filters I vow to get a cyclone but then again I only do this ~3 times a year.

and speaking of dust left behind in the shed, i have been cleaning the shed as am moving everything around to facilitate much shorter ducting runs, and there is buckets of dust even though the shed looked relatively clean...

And that's what you can see. My testing has show that the invisible dust in the air while cleaning can be 10+ x higher than safe levels.

[twigga]

And that's what you can see. My testing has show that the invisible dust in the air while cleaning can be 10+ x higher than safe levels.

which was why i was cleaning with all the roller doors open wearing a respirator.

ordered the sherwood DC2900 today while it was still on EOFY sale. planning to start work on a lean-to shed beside the shed this weekend. I'm on a few acres so don't need to worry about soundproofing too much. Planning to make it pretty big so i can free up some workshop space to store timber waiting to be used and/or drying timber.

[BobL]

which was why i was cleaning with all the roller doors open wearing a respirator.

ordered the sherwood DC2900 today while it was still on EOFY sale. planning to start work on a lean-to shed beside the shed this weekend. I'm on a few acres so don't need to worry about soundproofing too much. Planning to make it pretty big so i can free up some workshop space to store timber waiting to be used and/or drying timber.

Being on acres has its benefits. I'm sitting on 1/6th of an acre so everything is very squeezy and noise is a major issue.