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  1. #1
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    Default Experimental Violin by Barry Guest

    This instrument was born from the amazing research done by John McLennan. Music Acoustics, Physics, UNSWmclennan.html , and in particular, one essay http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/pu...nan/fholes.pdf that stirred my creative juices. This essay concludes by suggesting that the violin may benefit from substituting "slits" for the "F" Holes and placing a sound hole under the finger board. He added that this would be a development that "few would welcome," meaning that a departure from the "traditional" would not be accepted by the establishment.

    The reasoning behind John's "throw away line" was that the slits could provide an increased free plate area around the bridge area to augment the vibration of the bridge and bass bar. This logic struck me as something that needed to be tested.

    The result is an instrument with power across all strings and a consistent tone. Blowing vigorously across the sound hole to produce a Hemholtz resonance excites the "D " string. However, at 50 mm diameter, the sound hole is a little too large. A two litre violin, according to John's research, would require a sound hole around 1375 square mm. So, I have another project on the bench that will have an elliptical sound hole and with slits that don't follow the "C" bout line, but slits parallel to the centreline. Stay tuned.IMG_0826.jpgIMG_0825.jpgIMG_0819.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Default

    I know little about what your writing about however thats one beautiful looking instrument, especially the contrasting timbers.
    -Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I know little about what your writing about however thats one beautiful looking instrument, especially the contrasting timbers.
    Thanks for your kind words Scott. Stringed instrument acoustics is a perplexing subject and I think most people are confused by it because there is a plethora of conflicting research going around. However, my mission here is probably to confirm or deny the traditionalist view of the violin.

    There is much written about the "secret" of Stradivari and the Cremonese violin makers of the 17th and 18th centuries, but most of it has been published to either inflate price or maintain an aura of secrecy that perpetuates commercial imperative. This is not to say that these makers and their instruments were exceptional and the craftmanship excellent. However, it has been proven time and time again through blind and double blind tests that modern instruments are at least the equal of Stradivari et al.

    By making violins that depart from the traditional shape and specification (accepted norms) while understanding that they sound just as good will be a mission shrouded in subjectivity. I would love to put one of my violins in the hands of a very good but blindfolded player to get a reaction.

  5. #4
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    Thanks for elaborating a little. Can I ask, what sort of timber did you use? Also, you mention a great deal about the shape and acoustics however (in your opinion), what sort of difference does the timber make and why?
    -Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Thanks for elaborating a little. Can I ask, what sort of timber did you use? Also, you mention a great deal about the shape and acoustics however (in your opinion), what sort of difference does the timber make and why?
    Sorry Scott, I thought I had mentioned the timbers used. The top is Douglas Fir, the neck back and sides are Tasmanian Blackwood. All the internal blocks, bass bar, braces, linings and soundpost are King William Pine.

    The question of the difference a timber makes is largely subjective (ear of the beholder stuff). However, my own opinion is that the harder or more dense the timber in the back, the brighter the sound. But this is, in my humble opinion, not because of the species, but because of its density.

    On the other hand, soundboards (read top) are called that for a very good reason. Almost exclusively made from softwoods, soundboards excite vibration and get the air chamber moving in and out like a pump. In the case of a violin, the soundpost is like a fulcrum, a fixed point about which the bridge rocks on its bass foot, causing the air chamber to resonate. The more flexible the soundboard, the greater the vibration, and the greater the amplitude. European spruce is probably one of the most flexible woods on the planet and that is why it is used almost exclusively for violin tops. The density of European spruce is around 450 while European maple is around 750.

    So why do I use Australian woods? Because I can! I know a luthier in Wales who would give an arm for a stock of highly figured Tasmanian Blackwood. I actually sent him enough to make a violin last year and the freight and customs duty tripled the cost of the wood, making it less than viable for him to order in any quantity.

    Here is a pic of the back and the bracing system I use on flat top fiddles.IMG_0832.jpgIMG_0814.jpg

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz1000 View Post
    He added that this would be a development that "few would welcome," meaning that a departure from the "traditional" would not be accepted by the establishment.
    Yup the orthodox anti-sound hole establishment isn't going to be happy, In fact an unruly mob carrying pitchforks and torches just went by and they are headed in your direction!
    Anyway I think its great that you are experimenting, and I think your violin is quite handsome. One question though. Does the sound hole dictate the the use of a flat top and back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishtail View Post
    Yup the orthodox anti-sound hole establishment isn't going to be happy, In fact an unruly mob carrying pitchforks and torches just went by and they are headed in your direction!
    Anyway I think its great that you are experimenting, and I think your violin is quite handsome. One question though. Does the sound hole dictate the the use of a flat top and back?

    Too funny but too true. I'll sharpen my wooden stakes just in case. Thanks for the humour and the kind words. And no, the sound hole does not dictate the use of a flat top. This violin however, has a carved back as usual for a violin. The flat top is part of the experiment. I am trying to establish that the sounding board does not need to be carved and that a flat top is more responsive to vibration with the "slits" established as a "free plate area" enhancement.

    A recognised player will be providing a sound sample on this instrument during next week. I will post it on Youtube and post the link here. Thanks for your post. I appreciate the feedback.

  9. #8
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    Default Part Two of the Experiment as Promised

    This instrument is a further expansion of the experiment, where the "slits" are parallel to the centreline, and the sound hole is elliptical. More attention has been focused here on achieving a hemholtz resonance with the instrument tuned to "D". When air is blown across the soundhole the "D" string is excited sympathetically.IMG_0849.jpgIMG_0854.jpg

  10. #9
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    Barry, how do your experimental fiddles compare with your traditional ones? I must declare a bias for traditional fiddles but in the end it's about tone and projection.
    Cheers, Bill

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    Thanks for your reply.
    I hope there is no bias in this answer, but this instrument demonstrates good projection and an even tone across all strings. I haven't found a wolf note yet and I'm more than satisfied with the traditional comparison. However, as a player, I am a mug, so this instrument is going to Armidale in a couple of weeks time where it will be compared, videoed and tested by an exceptional player who has a Phd in music performance. Stay tuned for an independent view on this instrument.

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    I'm a mug player as well but I don't let that get in the way of having a good time! What I lack in technical ability I try and makeup with rhythm and double stops.
    Cheers, Bill

  13. #12
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    Barry i reckon its great that people have the desire to experiment/try new ideas, designs etc and more people than ever are open to them now so well done. Have procesed a lot of Oregano recently (old recycled) but none it was near the quality of your sound board, its hard to score knot free.

    Steve

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    That looks like a great instrument. If the "traditionalists" aren't going to like it anyway, maybe you could make it look even more modern in the neck and tuning pegs etc..
    anne-maria.
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    (White with none)
    Follow my little workshop/gallery on facebook. things of clay and wood.

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    I'm really looking forward to hearing from your instrument. Looks like great work, and it reminded me of a few links I had buried, not sure if these are any use to you, but they might prompt further inspiration:

    Design Concepts - David L. Rivinus Violin Maker
    Video: Scrapheap Orchestra, BBC Four, preview - Telegraph
    Scrapheap Orchestra 1812 - YouTube
    Anne Cole, Violinmaker: Custom Concert Instruments - Violins, Violas, Cellos
    Zarelon ~ Make your instrument sing ~

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tea lady View Post
    That looks like a great instrument. If the "traditionalists" aren't going to like it anyway, maybe you could make it look even more modern in the neck and tuning pegs etc..

    That's a great comment. Nothing holding me to the traditionalist view I guess.


    Steve,

    The Fir that I used in the tops of these two instruments came from 250mm X 75 mm rafters that were reclaimed from a demolished warehouse in Sydney. We used to call it "No 1 Clears" back in the 70's. I think they call it "gold" now.

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