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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Gold River, California
    Posts
    46

    Default Miffed over my massage table plans

    Years ago I put up a web page http://BillPentz.com/massage that shares out my detailed plans to build a really top of the line massage table. That page was copyrighted, meaning individuals are welcome to build for their own use, but must contact me to build or sell for a profit. Today I received word from a person who said she has been wanting to buy a copy of massage table plans from Jandelgifts of Australia off eBay for a while. She chose to see if there were any less expensive plans available and discovered that mine are the same as being sold on eBay (Item number: 5507326294).

    Complaining to the appropriate government agency is like getting a rock to dance in terms of finding out who needs what notification. Ditto with eBay who will not even accept a complaint unless I first buy a copy of my own plans. I am already going through the same with my http://BillPentz.com/cyclone plans as a number of folks have not only begun making cyclones from my plans for sale, a few have actually made 100% copies of my Cyclone and Dust Collection research pages and put them on their own sites. Sometimes I wonder what this world is coming to.

    Bill Pentz

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Romsey Victoria
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,854

    Default

    G'day Bill,

    I can see why you are miffed but I sadly trying to control pirating on the Internet is just about impossible. Record companies spend millions and pressure the legislators to try to stop people from stealing music with only marginal success.

    If you find someone selling them on eBay you can send them an email asking them to stop and if they fail threaten legal action. The cost and the small likelyhood of success rules out any actual legal redress.

    However, if a company is actually making cyclones from your plans then I would threaten legal action against these companies and see if you can come to some royalty arrangement. If you can prove breech of copyright then there is a real chance of success.
    Photo Gallery

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Endeavour Hills, Melbourne
    Age
    71
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Bill,

    I have just sent a message to the seller, asking if he/she is aware that these plans are copyrighted. Doubt I'll get a reply, but you never know. Sent feedback to EBay as well.

    Suggest we all do the same.
    Gordon
    _____________________________________________
    Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zigzag?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    UK
    Age
    71
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zymurgy
    I have just sent a message to the seller, asking if he/she is aware that these plans are copyrighted.
    Done! At the very least, we can fill the guy's inbox.

    If the item disappears in the mean time, the seller's id is jandelgifts

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Gold River, California
    Posts
    46

    Default Appreciate the support..

    As my good friend Barry in Adelaide would say, Thanks Mates!

    bill

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    melbourne
    Age
    67
    Posts
    939

    Default

    Will do the same

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    melbourne
    Age
    67
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    939

    Default

    Bill you could contact the winning bidders give them your web address and they will then not pay him and give him a bad reputation rap. This should stop him from selling your plans and maybe others.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    .
    Posts
    10,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glenn k
    Bill you could contact the winning bidders give them your web address and they will then not pay him and give him a bad reputation rap. This should stop him from selling your plans and maybe others.
    I did that some years ago when I was ripped off on ebay.
    And ebay banned me for contacting other winning bidders.

    Al

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Gympie QLD
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,095

    Default

    Bill,

    Sorry to hear someone else is ripping you off. I have also emailed them - probably get no reaction.
    Wayne
    ______________________________________________
    "I'd be delighted to offer any advice I have on understanding women.
    When I have some, I'll let you know."
    Picard

    * New Website - Updates Coming Soon *
    http://wayneswoodwork.davyfamily.com/

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Gympie QLD
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,095

    Default

    Did everyone else see the other items they are selling? One I noticed 'WOODWORKING PLANS 200+ WOOD HANDYMAN PLANS'. Bet that is a list of URL's that any search would find. They have quite a few other 'plans' cd's for sale which I'm sure contain the work of others.

    They sound like a lovely lot - NOT!!
    Wayne
    ______________________________________________
    "I'd be delighted to offer any advice I have on understanding women.
    When I have some, I'll let you know."
    Picard

    * New Website - Updates Coming Soon *
    http://wayneswoodwork.davyfamily.com/

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    melbourne
    Age
    67
    Posts
    939

    Default

    This is the reply I got from the person in question when I asked about the plans.




    hi,
    it is not an illegal copy i am selling

    i was selling a similar copy but now i have modified and made my own designs

    i am in contact with mr Pentz re this matter

    cheers jan

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Parkside - South Australia
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    Bill - That is bad news.

    I just typed up my email that we could all email to the seller ......

    Hello,

    I am interested in purchasing your plans for the massage table. Before I place my bid however I would like to confirm that the plans that you have for sale are either your own work or they are not protected by copyright. As I am sure you are aware it is both unethical and illegal to be selling for profit work that has been copyrighted by others or has been placed on the internet previously under the good will of the owner for the use of a not for profit individual.

    I hope that you understand my concerns of paying somebody for work that is not thier own, and I trust you can clarify that this massage table is your own original design before I can place my bid.

    Thank you and I look forward to your reply.


    But then when I logged on I noticed that the auction for your table plans had ended and now there is a new auction running for a similar table. I love that they put up their own copyright. Table . It looks as if they have been sprung. Be sure to keep us updated, it would seem that the respose to Glenn K indicates that they did steel your plan and now they have changed it. I would be expecting some royalties from all of the past sales if I was you.

    Stinky.
    Last edited by RETIRED; 16th July 2004 at 12:12 AM. Reason: little mistake
    Now proudly sponsored by Binford Tools. Be sure to check out the Binford 6100 - available now at any good tool retailer.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Parkside - South Australia
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    Bill or others - One of the winning bidders currently has there own auction running. tshqh . If you want to you can click on the ask the seller a question and let them know about the stolen plans .... they haven't paid for the plans yet.

    Interesting:

    From the sellers own "about me" page:

    Regarding our "HOW TO BUILD IT" PLANS
    we create and constantly improve and change our plans
    that we have for sale
    WE HAVE CONTINUED TO MODIFY AND IMPROVE OUR PLANS
    SO THAT NOW WE HAVE THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE
    "HOW TO BUILD IT" PLANS AVAILABLE ANYWHERE..........
    We Retain FULL VERO rights!
    OVER THE FOLLOWING PLANS
    100 INCH TV PLANS
    MASSAGE TABLE PLANS
    PAINTBALL PLANS
    DVD PLANS
    WOODWORKING PLANS
    FISHING LURE PLANS
    PC SPEED PLANS
    BIRDFEEDER PLANS
    WHOLESALE RESELLER PLANS


    We have FULL rights to OUR "HOW TO BUILD IT" PLANS
    and actively participate in the VERO program
    IT IS ILLEGAL TO REPRODUCE THESE PLANS IN ANY
    WAY OR TRY TO RESELL THEM


    In the past 2 weeks alone this seller has sold 28 copies of Bills plans at around $13.00 each. Not a bad profit for some photocopies. I didn't dare go over the entire history.
    Now proudly sponsored by Binford Tools. Be sure to check out the Binford 6100 - available now at any good tool retailer.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Parkside - South Australia
    Age
    45
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    If you are interested in fighting for your rights Ebay has the following service:
    eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO)TM Program:

    The problem now is that they have changed the image in the auctions so it will be difficult to show that the plans are the same. I think it is great that they could redesign the table and build an example for the photo in a matter of hours. I really wonder what percentage of the design has changed in the new plans.

    Sorry that I am getting so worked up over this but I feel I should fight for the protection of ones plans.
    Now proudly sponsored by Binford Tools. Be sure to check out the Binford 6100 - available now at any good tool retailer.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,773

    Default

    I've been doing some research of my own regarding protecting some of my own intelectual property & its interesting.

    patents
    copyright
    regestered designs
    trademarks

    all have their own rules & they vary from contry to country.

    but basicaly you' ve got to play a compliccated game to achieve any real protection for your IP.

    the text & form of your site will certainly be protected but the information expressed within probably will not.

    By publising you put you work in the public domain & the information within is then acessable to all. (And thanks Bill for publishing my first cyclone works very well.)

    In this country unless you regester the design you have very little comeback against commercial products using designs derived from your work.

    There has been an ongoing argument in the magic community about individual perfromers and commercial builders manufacturing & performing so called "trademark tricks" as published in various books and magazines with publishers of plans books demanding royalty payments.

    The upshot is that some agreeable users of the designs choose to pay a fee out of the goodness of their hearts. But the real situation in law seems to be that once you publish the information is in the public domain.

    If someone outright coppies the expression of your work that is a breach and you can have them, but if they distill the information & re write it in their own words they cant be touched.

    The other issue that is bigger than all the detail & argument about your rights, is your ability and inclination to defend your rights.

    A patent for instance (no matter how good) is only as good as your ability to fund a defence against an infringing party. Basicaly you are on your own you must bring the action & fund the lagal expenses. You may get "some" assistance from government, probably advice & sympaty but thats about all.

    I'm afraid bill that you will have to be content with the thanks of clear breathing wood workers, the ocasional gift toward your work, and the knowelege that we all think you are a great bloke.

    cheers bill & thanks

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