Thanks: 0
Likes: 0
Needs Pictures: 0
Picture(s) thanks: 0
Results 61 to 75 of 85
Thread: Celery Top Soundboard?
-
2nd February 2010, 09:56 PM #61Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Caves Beach, NSW
- Posts
- 277
[QUOTE=woodturner777;
Getting old.
Regards,Bob[/QUOTE]
arent we all
-
2nd February 2010 09:56 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
-
3rd February 2010, 09:29 AM #62Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
Celery Top Soundboard
Peter, your comments about about eucalyptus that you could not bend into a mandolin shape, brittle and hard to bend, also problems with small splits this is feed back I get I hope some one finds a way around this as it is an excellent tonewood.
Density 613 - sound volocity 5262.
So it is a species that needs more research.
-
3rd February 2010, 09:47 AM #63Mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Bega NSW
- Posts
- 131
Well one way around the bending problem is to not use Eucalyptus for the sides. I have some Myrtle that looks quite nice with the Tassie Eucalyptus, and Myrtle is easy to bend. The small splits I suspect was caused by poor drying technique, but then can't be sure because I did not dry it. Myrtle can also develop lots of small splits if dried too quickly. The extremely dry Canberrra summer (drought) weather has caused me to put some nice Tassie Myrtle up the chimney. We recently moved to Bega so probably won't have that problem here.
-
3rd February 2010, 10:05 AM #64Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
Celery Top Soundboard
Peter, your comment that you could use myrtle for the sides with the eucalyptus
there is a fair bit of difference between density and sound volocity with the two species would this cause problems.?
Regards,Bob
-
3rd February 2010, 10:07 AM #65Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Caves Beach, NSW
- Posts
- 277
I have not used it myself but some have had success using veneer softeners before bending.
Supersoft2 in the USA
Or veneer softener from rivergum timbers in Australia
Rivergum Timbers - Veneer Softener
generally applied the day before bending and allowed to dry.
-
3rd February 2010, 12:57 PM #66Mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Bega NSW
- Posts
- 131
Bob, I very much doubt it would make any difference at all. The sides of a mandolin contribute little to the overall sound, the top and back are by far the most important sound contributers, but the neck can also contribute a little, When you take the width of a side (~35mm), and subtract the height of the linings (20mm) there is only 15mm of side material that is not rigidly clamped,
-
3rd February 2010, 03:12 PM #67Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
-
3rd February 2010, 04:19 PM #68Mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Bega NSW
- Posts
- 131
I don't normally stain the Aussie timbers because they have enough natural colour, and I much prefer the look of natural colours over stain. Look at this one recently finished. Not a drop of stain nor any plastic on it, and if you have any figured Blackwood that colour, let me know.
Mandolins By Peter Coombe - Recently completed instruments
I do stain the ones I make from the traditional Maples.
Peter
-
3rd February 2010, 04:57 PM #69Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
-
10th February 2010, 10:09 PM #70Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
Jeff, lets both keep our cool this time around.
I spent some time with Gary Rizzolo last week, listening to the guitar with the celery top sound board, with a good sound and lots of volume, the only thing Gary says he does different with Celery top is make it a bit thiner.
While I was at Garys place, Cary Lewincamp called round to visit.
Cary Lewincamp Simply Beautiful Music
Cary has agreed to do a sound track with the guitar as soon as possible.
I note in a thread in the A.N.Z.L.F. that you watched the D.V.D. twice by Ervin Somogyi voicing the guitar and you say in truth that you were not enlightened, I note that you are a ex engineer, do you have an engineer set mind.? in other words if celery top is too dense it will not work as a soundboard.? reminds me of an IQ test that I had when I was young moving to a new high School in England after my family moved down from Scotland where I was born, me and the others in the class were given a board with different shaped holes and a bunch of different shaped pegs and asked to fit the pegs into the holes, they reckon that you can not fit a square peg into a round hole, you can when you excuse yourself and ask the teacher if you can go to the toilet and instead go to the wood work class and borrow a hammer and believe me you can fit a square peg in a round hole, you just have to hit it hard, the moral of the story that is true, is a got 6 of the best with a leather strap that is what they did in them days, but I proved my point. So we will now wait for the sound track with the celery top soundboard that will prove the point, you just have to know what you are doing and try it.
Cheers,Bob
It is worth looking at the properties of some common soundboard woods and comparing them to what Celery top has to offer
Western red cedar 380kg/m3 Modulus of Elasticity 8,3 GPa
Sitka Spruce 430.................... 11
Bunya Pine 460 ......................13
Celery Top Pine 650 ................12
So compared to sitka, your wrc is lighter and a bit less stiff so you make it a little thicker to compensate and still end up with a lightweight top.
Your bunya is a little heavier, but 18% stiffer so the soundboard can be made a little thinner and still be an acceptable weight.
Then you get to the Celery top. 51% heavier and only 9% stiffer so you can't thin it much
So the end result is a soundboard nearly 50% heavier than a spruce board Which is pretty significant both for volume and high frequencies.[/QUOTE]
-
11th February 2010, 08:29 AM #71Senior Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Caves Beach, NSW
- Posts
- 277
Unfortunately Bob soundclips do not prove anything except the skill of the person doing the recording.
Not a set mind Bob, but the experience of luthiers all round the world has led to an understanding that a lightweight guitar soundboard is important and celery top does not meet that criteria.
It is not just a matter of knowing what you are doing and trying it, The basic properties are not there.
Must be both of our early years in Scotland that make us stubborn.
regards
Jeff
-
11th February 2010, 08:44 AM #72Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
Celery Top Soundboard
Must be both of our early years in Scotland that make us stubborn.
regards
Jeff
-
11th February 2010, 09:33 AM #73Mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Location
- Bega NSW
- Posts
- 131
Must be both of our early years in Scotland that make us stubborn.
Well I come from a scientific background and that probably makes me just as stubborn. Theories mean nothing until supported by evidence obtained by experimentation. If supported by enough evidence then a theory becomes accepted as a truth, maybe even a law. However, it only takes one experiment that disproves the theory for everything to come crashing down. Maybe the experiment will support the theory, in which case it is more likely the theory is true, but never proven as a mathematical proof can be proven. If the experiment is not done, you will never know.
-
11th February 2010, 09:50 AM #74Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
-
2nd November 2010, 07:29 PM #75Retired
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Bagdad Tasmania
- Age
- 77
- Posts
- 1,504
Celery top as a Soundboard
Hope you dont mind me bringing this up again Jeff,
I have had a bit more feedback from customers using Celery top as a sound board and all of them are happy with the result, and to allow for the density finished there soundboards at 2.3 thickness, so it does work it just needs to be worked different.
Regards, Bob
Similar Threads
-
Sassafras for Soundboard?
By goodwoody in forum MUSICAL INSTRUMENTSReplies: 4Last Post: 25th February 2009, 06:27 PM -
Acoustic Soundboard
By Different in forum MUSICAL INSTRUMENTSReplies: 17Last Post: 26th August 2008, 10:50 PM -
Celery top
By sinjin in forum TIMBERReplies: 2Last Post: 12th June 2008, 03:15 PM -
celery top pine
By gypsy t in forum BOAT RESOURCES / PRODUCT SEARCHReplies: 2Last Post: 26th January 2005, 07:16 PM