Can you earn a living with wood carving?

[Frank&Earnest]

Mixing metaphoric porridge eh? In truth, I did have porridge once from a sachet, but I'm told "that's noo houv yoo make porridge"

[springwater]

Mixing metaphoric porridge eh? In truth, I did have porridge once from a sachet, but I'm told "that's noo houv yoo make porridge"

See now, the problem was the quick solution out of the sachet has turned you off. Cup of rolled oats, cup of water, cup of milk, pinch of salt, oats need to be softened with constant stiring, bring to boil slowly and mum didn't always keep an eye on the sugar bowl

[Artesano]

Of course, Artesano, I do not want in any way dismiss your sculpure, but that is not where you get your bread and butter....yet.

...and I don't realy think it's gonna be soon (bread &butter on sculpture , I mean ). Saying that , I' ve produced quite a number of very commercial works , and the hours/money ratio was FAR better than my actual work in a furniture workshop. Don't look in the direction of carved furniture , Frank-that's WRONG. Carved furniture is a dead-end since the pantograph came to the scene , and , just as if it were not enough , now we' ve got the cheap (slave)labor of the Far East....forget it.
(There are exeptions - look at the last link of my previous post. If you are REALY good , no chinese with a pantograph will scare you). The way a carver can make a living is on commisions - carved personal things , wich you can't just by from Indonesia....I've made literaly hundreds of carved signs-some of them in the range of 500 Eur. , coats of arms , carved panels , etc . The other field to explore is restoration- can't say about the situation down there , but Europe 's full of churches , cathedrals , castles and old, historic buildings. The thing with old buildings is that they get older with time - and things need to be repared (imagine the altar of Sevilla 's cathedral - 500 sq. meters).These things are financied by trusts and goverment funds , and it's a very serious business.....
So is it impossible to make a living on carving ? No , it's just damn hard - and not an option if you are happy to do other things. For my part , I'll get there or die trying

[Frank&Earnest]

See now, the problem was the quick solution out of the sachet has turned you off. Cup of rolled oats, cup of water, cup of milk, pinch of salt, oats need to be softened with constant stiring, bring to boil slowly and mum didn't always keep an eye on the sugar bowl

OK, but we are digressing. Whittling will not be impressed if all the wisdom we can come up with is recipes for porridge... You make very nice bracelets etc. Do you sell any? If yes, any advice on marketing? If not, how long do they take you to do?

[Frank&Earnest]

...and I don't realy think it's gonna be soon (bread &butter on sculpture , I mean ). Saying that , I' ve produced quite a number of very commercial works , and the hours/money ratio was FAR better than my actual work in a furniture workshop. Don't look in the direction of carved furniture , Frank-that's WRONG. Carved furniture is a dead-end since the pantograph came to the scene , and , just as if it were not enough , now we' ve got the cheap (slave)labor of the Far East....forget it.
(There are exeptions - look at the last link of my previous post. If you are REALY good , no chinese with a pantograph will scare you). The way a carver can make a living is on commisions - carved personal things , wich you can't just by from Indonesia....I've made literaly hundreds of carved signs-some of them in the range of 500 Eur. , coats of arms , carved panels , etc . The other field to explore is restoration- can't say about the situation down there , but Europe 's full of churches , cathedrals , castles and old, historic buildings. The thing with old buildings is that they get older with time - and things need to be repared (imagine the altar of Sevilla 's cathedral - 500 sq. meters).These things are financied by trusts and goverment funds , and it's a very serious business.....
So is it impossible to make a living on carving ? No , it's just damn hard - and not an option if you are happy to do other things. For my part , I'll get there or die trying

Yep, exactly what I was suggesting when I mentioned you and your environment. By the way, I know a member of the SA woodcarvers club who is more or less in your situation: for example he made a few grandfather clocks for an upmarket shop that are on sale for $17,000 each. He obviously got only a fraction of that, however. As you said, not many 17th century cathedrals in Australia....

[Whittling]

OK, but we are digressing. Whittling will not be impressed if all the wisdom we can come up with is recipes for porridge... You make very nice bracelets etc. Do you sell any? If yes, any advice on marketing? If not, how long do they take you to do?

Thanks for that Frank. (As it happens, I already know how to make porridge).

Thank you all for your comments. One I particularly find applicable is the one about needing to step out of your comfort zone. I HATE doing that and will usually procrastinate big time, in an attempt to avoid it. However on the occassions where I have forced myself to do so, I have grown through the experience.

My current circumstances do not permit me to do much about pursuing carving as a living any time soon. I still maintain that you work for money or love, but rarely both. The guys that really love their work, doing whatever interests them AND seem to have the incredible luck to have loads of people with lots of disposible income who feel the same way about it, are few and far between, but like lotto winners....they do exist. Gives the rest of us drones something to aspire to I guess...

I currently see myself somewhere in the middle. I like what I do for the most part. I do not need the money, though it certainly helps. I am a full time carer and as such, carving takes second place to other considerations in my day to day. Having said that, I took it up as a way to fill the numerous, but relatively short gaps in my day, and to keep me sane. It has turned out to be moderately lucritive as well, not enough to live on but certainly a good suppliment income.

I have chosen to specialise in whittling. I define this as wood carving in which the work is held in the off hand rather than having it bolted or clamped. The versitility and portability of this form of carving is one of the main reasons I got into it in the first place... it fit our life style when other forms of woodwork/carving did/do not. The down side is that like your own experience, items that guarentee income tend to be repetative and therefore less both challenging and satisfying. (but I like the money) <!-- / message -->

I want to get better at whittling, and other forms of carving too but for now it has to fit in with other things in life. In the mean time, I am selling everything I have time to make, either in a craft market environment, or one of two galleries in which I have work. I'm also falling behind on commission work I have agreed to take on, so much so that there is now a waiting period of 2 months for any new commission. Plus I'm trying to run schools in whittling in Adelaide and Victor Harbor. Single day sessions once a month, alternating between the two venues, is all I have time for at the moment. There is a 2 month waiting list there as well.

I know my work is pretty rough when I compare it to some of the stuff you guys have done. I will keep trying to improve. I am very glad I came across this forum. I know I'm going to learn a lot here and look forward to maybe sharing a bit too. For now though, I'm going to bed cause I've got another market day tomorrow.

[springwater]

OK, but we are digressing. Whittling will not be impressed if all the wisdom we can come up with is recipes for porridge... You make very nice bracelets etc. Do you sell any? If yes, any advice on marketing? If not, how long do they take you to do?

Yeah OK, back on track, I'll try to be lucid but there's so many roads. For me making work to sell has never been the prime motivational force so any money I get from my art work is a bonus. So I earn a living in commercial art, how I got into that was because I had to feed and shelter my family which was of more concern to me than, well, non commercial art (I trained in "Fine Art").

It wasn't until five years ago when I answered a advertisement in the local paper for a call for entries to exhibit and by some impulse I did, this was it:
Attachment 113148
Unexpectedly someone asked to buy it and I was asked what the price was to which I answered that I hadn't a clue because I hadn't thought of it's value in monetary terms, anyway it was sold for $1200 less 10% gallery commission because it was a non-commercial gallery, expect 40 to 50% commission from commercial galleries

So I was asked to do a solo exhibition at the same gallery. With a full time job getting it together meant very long days and all weekends for months. It was good though as I had to get organised and lists of things to do were made, things crossed off along the way and calendar days ticked off until the opening night came.

I exhibited ten works, three of which weren't for sale for sentimental reasons, of the seven remaining two didn't sell and the poor unwanted things are still with me now, the remaining five sold for a total of $3,700 less 10%. The five sold took roughly 300 hours to complete so I got $11.10 an hour for them, is that right Frank

One of the works was sold to a commercial gallery for $1,350 who later sold it for $2,800. Here it is:
Attachment 113149
I'm still not comfortable with selling my work, seeing it leave to a place unknown is a little disturbing but you get over it eventually.

As for the bracelets I do, their done in my spare time because I can't keep my hands idle sitting down. Each heart or bird takes about an hour all up, nests a little less, sanded to 1200 grit. Their given away as gifts, I've been told by a shop owner that they could sell for $200 but haven't taken up the offer: I've considered some sort of mass production but it usually takes a back seat. This is the latest that went to my daughter albeit unstrung but the idea was to give her enough for three bracelets, I consider them priceless
Attachment 113163Attachment 113164

[movay_2008]

An interesting thread, brings out the claws. I had a go at a major carving over the last few months for some large disposable Iincome types, or so it seemed. They wanted to do the job for around 700, but said more money would be considered. It was worth at least twice that in the end, and they wouldn't budge over 700, citing a verbal agreement we alledgedly had and forgetting another. I could of stopped and left the project unfinished and unfinishable, as only I knew the creative formula. Its an artwork that is still locked up and waiting to be revealed as the ning-nongs turned it upside down (see finished the balustrades thread). They have had other work in mind for me but are too embarrassed to ask me as the price got my artwork for was so low. They want some carving (routed) from Asia copied and I quoted Picasso to them "Bad artists copy, good artists steal"

I did the handrail and balustrades only.











The project was interferred with and finishes were badly compomised, but it all added up to an interesting piece somehow - still not quite finished in these pics. I knew at the beginning of the job that I had to seize the creative side of it and go with it despite anyone elses worry or objection as to poissible cost, so i could have done something less rewarding aesthetically and come up with 17 an hour rather than about 10 or 12. I certainly enjoyed myself blue dealing with the philistine Australian attitudes I was up against.

We are in this business of returning the species somehow to careful but powerful work accomplished by hand with simple tools and an individual stamp. Never give in!

I'm finally off to Europe tomorrow for a few weeks, will be carving spotting in Cologne, Amsterdam and Geneva, will retun with pics Also visiting here:

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate

[Frank&Earnest]

I exhibited ten works, three of which weren't for sale for sentimental reasons, of the seven remaining two didn't sell and the poor unwanted things are still with me now, the remaining five sold for a total of $3,700 less 10%. The five sold took roughly 300 hours to complete so I got $11.10 an hour for them, is that right Frank

Wow, see what a bit of prompting brings out? Sorry if I was a bit pushy, but your post certainly justified it.

You seem to confirm, and Movay does too, Whittling's observation that 10 to 20 dollars per hour (which is around the minimum wage mark) is the going rate. Which, for doing something you like, even if not what you would really, really love, is pretty good, in my opinion. It even allows you to keep to the moral high ground, because you can say you do a fair day's worth for a fair day's pay instead of taking rich mugs for a ride...

[springwater]

Wow, see what a bit of prompting brings out? Sorry if I was a bit pushy, but your post certainly justified it.

You seem to confirm, and Movay does too, Whittling's observation that 10 to 20 dollars per hour (which is around the minimum wage mark) is the going rate. Which, for doing something you like, even if not what you would really, really love, is pretty good, in my opinion. It even allows you to keep to the moral high ground, because you can say you do a fair day's worth for a fair day's pay instead of taking rich mugs for a ride...

No pushyness taken Frank but I'm more content with the porridge recipe contribution myself although considering I forgot to mention transport costs, tax if applicable and cost of materials then high moral ground on dry biscuits may have been a better suggestion

Really love your work by the way Whittling

[Whittling]

Thanks Springwater,

I've learned a bit out of this thread... (besides porridge recipies). Its interesting that so many are finding the $10 to $20 per hour the norm for carving regardless of the 'class' of the carving they are doing. I've always felt that because I'm new at this game and my stuff is 'low brow' as it were, that it was all I could expect. Somehow I though that if my skills improved and I learned to carve 'high brow art' (whatever that is) then I could expect to earn more. It appears maybe not, which for me is actually kind of encouraging in a peculiar sort of way.

I know I'm currently at my limit in terms of the time and resources I can put to carving. To find out that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side of the fence makes my current inability to get to the other side of said fence easier to cope with for now. I'd still like to try getting there eventually but I somehow don't feel the same discomfort in being on my own side for now.

[DsArt]

me thinks it`s always been difficult to make a livin from self production,and we know that as soon as it gets produced beyond that then you ain`t doin it anyway if you can go bigger and faster then it requires more ,bigger ?,ect ,ect, and ultimatly costs more ,and originality suffers ,the cycle begins again,Living like a (hippie)means nothing ,it was a word FRANK that meant ARE YOU HIP to what`s going on ,like aware ,EYE`S OPEN ,MIND OPEN ,I would hate to think that all talent was genetic ,cause that means that all paths are pre-destined ,must be why we is where we are now on accountant of that thesis,all the more reason for more HIPpy self creating people give it a go whittler if there is a doorway for you to open then you`ll find it,it`s not a birth right ,it` a bright light ,remember now, it on accountant of that(genetic)head space is why we is all where we is now and it only self creation that`ll get us out,danny

[DsArt]

forgot this bit ,i got seven kids, my partner of now five ,all doin their own thing now but it`s still struggle gut for them, so over the last ten years i made them all personal chests ,carved ect ,silky ,&cedar, then all the girls got a personal jewlery box of there own choice of totem ,the challenge here was how to do and how to bring alive, the boys the same,now me startin to go through the youngin`s as they come of appreciate age. I sign everything as some time in the future (me gone) they will all have their own antique.I`ve done this because they mayby could`nt or wouldn`t buy somthing in this nature.i`ve never been shown anything but gratitude for this ,and for me that`s better than the buck ,of cause me not averse to some of that If you not sellin then give it the feelin last longer than the buck