help on hand chisel sharpening

[coffenup]

hi I am trying to understand how to sharpen my hand chisels I dont understand the 2 angles thing is the 30 deg the main angle & 25 deg the secondary angle or the othe way round . Please help me as I will grind the first angle then try with an oil stone I have already to finsh off. My previous attempts I have made my chisels into decorations as they are not usable for any thing. And I want to get them right to make my storage box for them but I need a sharp chisel to finish of the corner joints on their box.
Any advice would help as I have read the books but it does not sink in
Regards Michael

[Waldo]

Simplest thing, get a Veritas MkII honing jig. I've ever only ground a primary bevel of 25º. I've never done a secondary bevel to take it to 30º, can't see the need

http://www.carbatec.com.au/sharpenin...i-honing-guide (now $95 )

Beyond that use whatever tickles your fancy - wet & dry paper, water stones, oil stones, the Puruvian hair of minks, DMT...

Let the can of worms begin, if anyone cares about the sharpening can of worms anymore.

[coffenup]

I went out the other day & bought a tool that is suposed to hold the chisel firm while using the oil stone but can't get it right
Regards Michael

[Tex B]

I think a lot of it is just practice, and it's kind of boring (at least for me).

Some key things:

Your stone needs to be f-l-a-t. Some people glue sandpaper to glass, because getting it flat is easy. Waterstones flatten easily. Not sure about oilstones.

Need some lubrication with stones. Water stones use water, oilstones use oil. They'll build up a bit of slurry, which is useful stuff so don't wipe it off.

Firm pressure, but not hard. Don't try to 'shave' the stone, just rub it back and forth. A lot.

Lots of people use different grits to speed things up. Starting with a rougher stone or sandpaper or grindstone and moving to a smoother one, then a smoother one. This will make it go quicker and if your chisels are pretty rough to start with, I'd suggest using something pretty rough first. 80 grit sandpaper, rough grindstone, etc, to get the initial edge and then smooth it out from there.

Seems to be as many different ways and techniques as there are people, you just have to keep trying and find one that works.

Enjoy,

Tex

[switt775]

I was pretty much in the same boat until I coughed up for the Veritas honing jig. At first it looks like a lot of money, but it's soooo much better than the cheap jigs it's not even funny.

I'll also second the suggestion about using a piece of glass and sandpaper along with the Veritas jig. I use if for all my chisels and plane blades, and am very happy with the results

[kiwioutdoors]

Flatten the back of your chisel to a mirror finish (your wasting your time if you dont do this first)

Then
Pretty much obtain your primary bevel ie 25 or 30 degrees on some type of grinder. Make sure if your using a standard ie high speed non water grinder to ensure you dont overheat the chisel. You may need to use some type of jig to hold the chisel at the right angle on the grinding wheel.

Then you will need to shift to stones and a honing jig to hone to the same finish as you did on the back

then remove the wire burr using some green rouge and a polishing wheel or leather strop.

There are many ways have a good read here and elsewhere on the net an decide through trial and error what suits you

If you need a tool sharpened find someone who can do it and pay to have it done so you can finish your project but plan to do it your self in the long run

[eddie the eagle]

Hi Michael,

primary grind is about 25°, honing angle is about 30°. I've said about as I have never measured a grinding angle.

Basically, the length of the bevel should be about twice the thickness of the blade to make it about right.


Here's a writeup I wrote a while ago.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...cles_556.shtml

I just read it and there's no way I'd use a felt wheel - point 11 - I think someone took a bit of editorial license.

Cheers,

eddie

[Lignin]

I concur wholeheartedly with the purchase and use of the Veritas #2 honing guage.It is easy to set up, easy to use, and, providing your stones/W&D on glass etc are FLAT(See above) you should be able to get some very satisfying results.
If your blades are pitted. gapped, or in any way horrible, invest in a diamond stone to lap the marks out before wearing out your water stones.
The grind angles you use are largely determined by the grain type and hardness of the timber you are working, and, as they say. "to each, his own"
The micro-bevel gives a bit of added strength to your cutting edge, but is not compulsory.
BE WARNED:
Sharpening is strangely cathartic, very satisfying, and can easily become addictive!!!
ENJOY!!!

[pjt]

Micheal,
If u r trying to do a primary and secondary sharpening angle, the lower angle (25°) will be the first one to grind (or hone) depending on how blunt your chisel is, then the steeper angle of 30° will be the second angle to hone.
I wouldn't go this steep for a secondary bevel tho if my primary angle was 25.

If I ground a 25° primary angle all I would do is hone the edge of the chisel at some non specific angle such that I produce a narrow secondary bevel across the width of the chisel, it may only be 1° more.

If u grind your primary angle u should have a slight hollow in the face of the chisel that matches your grinding wheel diameter, if u dont have a honing guide u can achieve a secondary bevel by resting the chisel face on the oil/water stone such that the front and back r resting on the stone but because of the hollow grind not in the middle, this gives u 2 points of contact on the chisel face which steadies the chisel while rubbing on the stone, a few strokes and u should see a secondary bevel appearing, it will also be appearing on the top as well.

I also don't get to stressed about whether I am grinding 25° or 30° or a whatever angle for a primary bevel, a lower angle will produce a sharper chisel that will cut timber with less force but more prone to collapse and a steeper angle will have a stronger edge but will require more force to cut wood (bigger hammer)

For a chisel that I am using in softer woods and by hand only I'd use the lower angles but if I was working in hardwood and need to use a hammer I'd use the steeper angles.

Hope this helps,
Peter.

[kiwioutdoors]

I have always thought that 25 and 30 refered to the primary bevel only and a that any further adjustment to that came at a point when you wanted to grind say a micro bevel say at 31 degrees during honing almost as a last step ?

I have also thought that 25 degrees primary bevel was desirable in hard woods and 30 was more suitable for softer varieties? Hence many member here have 2 or more sets for their work.

Someone with more knowledge please correct me if my understanding is flawed.

[mic-d]

I have always thought that 25 and 30 refered to the primary bevel only and a that any further adjustment to that came at a point when you wanted to grind say a micro bevel say at 31 degrees during honing almost as a last step ?

I have also thought that 25 degrees primary bevel was desirable in hard woods and 30 was more suitable for softer varieties? Hence many member here have 2 or more sets for their work.

Someone with more knowledge please correct me if my understanding is flawed.

when people are speaking of 25º and 30º and chisel sharpening, they are generally referring to the primary (big)bevel (25º) and secondary (small) bevel (30º). The primary bevel is often ground on a grinder to expedite removal. It's just a bevel that gives clearance for the secondary bevel. The secondary bevel may be equal pitch to the primary especially if you free hand hone with the front and back of the bevel resting on the stone, or anything more than 25º, 30º is typical. For paring or carving or softerwoods use a lower small bevel angle making the cut easier, for heavier work, use a higher secondary bevel pitch for a more robust edge.

Cheers
Michael

[ajackson]

Today I purchased a

Stanley 3pce Sharpening Kit. #16.050 from Bunnies. looks like this (see link)

http://www.justtools.com.au/prod4538.htm

Makes the job much easier .... and yet kinda addictive

Cheers

Adam

[Wongdai]

... the Puruvian hair of minks, ...

Ohhhh. MINKS!!! And here is silly me been trying to use the Peruvian hair of MONKS! Doh!

[Sebastiaan56]

You can also make a jig like this http://www.mwells.org/woodworking/sh...int-honing-jig

A bit of timber and a bolt, cost 30c?

[hcim]

You can also make a jig like this http://www.mwells.org/woodworking/sh...int-honing-jig

A bit of timber and a bolt, cost 30c?

Great !!! I've seen similar jig : http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/sharpen.html ... In fact, I'm just about to make my first. . And here's how to calculate the exact angle if yo want to be accurate http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sha...sel%20jig.html .

BE WARNED: Sharpening is strangely cathartic, very satisfying, and can easily become addictive!!! ENJOY!!!

Hhmmm, ... I'm starting to believe this warning