Eureka Canoe

[bitingmidge]

Where's the pics?

The seats aren't quite as high as they look, the aft one actually sits on the join as described in the plan, but will probably end up about 150 ish off the floor.

Don't be too quick to tell people how simple these things are to build, what will they think I've been doing for the last few years?

Cheers,
P

[PhilW]

Ah Pics. Yeah...Must get around to doing that. But everyone then will see that my Eureka looks like the Quueen Mary. Just kidding...... Will try to work out how to do the pic on line thingy. Reread the posts on this and saw the text on the seats. Thanks Pete. Well explained and demonstrated. Will follow your lead on that. Things that I have done wrong (regarding the Eureka I mean)

Stitching the hull together. The 6 mill is a bugger to pull together especially around the bows. Ended up with the chine and side wall not meeting so well. Realised later that I should have wedged the chines out from inside. But instead used epoxy as a filler and did some serious shaping. Burnt out my jigsaw cause I spent too long cutting rather than spending shorter periods at it. Oh. Used a 75 x 19 hoop pine for the butt straps when I should have used ply. It is really strong but too bulky and unattractive. So the issue for me has been trying to imagine what the next stage will look like when reading the plans and then trying to follow as Mik suggests. (A simley there for Mik cause his plans/canoe and suggestions are so great..) And Pete so helpful....

Cheers
Phil

[Boatmik]

Howdy Phil, The comments below are really for other readers - you know what it like because you have done it!!!

Stitching the hull together. The 6 mill is a bugger to pull together especially around the bows. Ended up with the chine and side wall not meeting so well. Realised later that I should have wedged the chines out from inside. But instead used epoxy as a filler and did some serious shaping.

It is a bit fiddly. With the one built at the Duckflat Spring School we had one person pushing the panels into alignment while the other person tightened the copper wire stitching. If held in line when the stitching is tightened it all works ok. One neat trick is that if the stitching is tight but there is a misalignment you can put a screwdriver on the wire on the inside and tap it with a hammer so the copper wire is pushed more into the inside shape of the chine. A medium tap or two. When this is done the wire becomes a bit looser which can allow the latitude to make the adjustment.

Burnt out my jigsaw cause I spent too long cutting rather than spending shorter periods at it.

Good advice. And a nice sharp blade - one of the special plywood ones is good. Depends on the quality of the jigsaw too. Give cheaper ones a bit of a rest from time to time.

Also the best way to cool power tools is to run them without any load. They don't generate as much heat and the fan is going fast to cool them. If you just let them rest on the bench there is no airflow to let them cool.

Oh. Used a 75 x 19 hoop pine for the butt straps when I should have used ply. It is really strong but too bulky and unattractive.

) It doesn't need to be any stronger than the ply of the hull - so ply the same thickness as the hull will do. The main thing is that it has enough glue area to either side of the join. So long as you follow the plan there will be no problem as that width is specified.

I've seen a number of boats including the Weekender series that use a solid timber buttstrap to join ply sheets. This is a SERIOUSLY WEAK METHOD as if the hull ever gets a whack the buttstrap will just split down the grain breaking the join. Some timber grain needs to CROSS the join - so plywood is perfect.

If you have used this method on the Eureka I think the 19mm will be OK just because it is so thick compared to the ply.

So the issue for me has been trying to imagine what the next stage will look like when reading the plans and then trying to follow as Mik suggests. (A simley there for Mik cause his plans/canoe and suggestions are so great..) And Pete so helpful....

Cheers to you too!!!!

MIK

[hairymick]

Heya Midge,

Seriously good looking seats mate.

Would you mind sharing how you cut the slots in the ply please?

[bitingmidge]

Would you mind sharing how you cut the slots in the ply please?

With pleasure!

I'm not that handy with a router, so serious router types please feel free to step in and make suggestions. For me, any template has to be idiot proof.

Typically I build router templates out of MDF that I scrounge from packing cases.

I make them by cutting them into pieces on the tablesaw and glueing them back together, rather than routing to guides, as I can get a lot of control over the actual slot size and so on, and can actually make them suprisingly accurately .

First, cut a piece of MDF wider than the seat is going to be, and make the slot in it exactly the width of your router guide. Just the standard tin guide that came with the router is ok. You will have to work out how long you want the cuts to be, so you can make the slot the right length. (Pic 1)

Next, glue two parallel pieces across the top and bottom of the guide exactly the width of the seat apart. Now work out how far apart you want your slots, and screw a batten the width of the router bit at exactly that spacing from the slot in the template. (Pic 2) This batten needs to be no thicker than the ply,(I use a bit of ply!) and screwed in, because it can't be there when you route the first slot, as you've nothing to register over it.

Unfortunately, I've recut the seat so it doesn't quite fit in the slot any more, but you should be able to understand from Pic 3 how it all works. To route the slots, the ply has to be on the underside, so proceed to the next step before you start!

Finally, cut a piece of MDF the same width as the seat, to act as a backing board. When it's in place it will hold everything together (Pic 4). Ignore the screw holes in the pic, they are left over from a previous life, it's all just loose fitted and held together by clamps. Because of the registration batten nothing can move.

Remember the backing board faces down, the slot is in the top. If you don't do that, you'll have difficulty getting the router to work!

To make it all happen, the seat fits in the template, backing board on, clamped to the bench. Each time you route a slot, unclamp, and move the seat one slot to the left!

It all seems like a lot of work reading it here, but it's four glue lines on some scrap MDF really, and it takes no time at all. If you use yellow PVA for the glue bits, you'll have time for a cup of coffee between making the template and routing the seats.

Go on, have fun! I hope that's clear enough, if not, please ask.

Cheers,

P

[hairymick]

Thanks Midge,

I am not a routing type either but I do so love to play with them!

All is clear now, thank you.

[bitingmidge]

Do you want a template?

P

[hairymick]

No thanks mate. but thank you anyway.

My next canoe is a couple of months off at least and by then, by the time I am ready to start the seats, I should be right.

I was just wondering how you did it is all.

[PhilW]

Pete. You are near genius. That template is brilliant. Was wondering how to get the slots accurate for the seat. I have a problematic relationship with my router. After nearly taking off my finger on the thing some years ago, I like the idea of a template that keeps the sodding thing under control.

Mik. Thanks for the response regarding my build to date. I will take your thoughts on board on the next project.

Just saw the radar for SE Qld. It is raining over the dams. Great news.
Phil

[PhilW]

Hi guys. Maybe MIK or Pete could answer this one. Anyone??
I have a quickish question. I used the centre deck support as suggested in the plans for the fore and aft deck on the Eureka. You have recommended using this as an easier method than not having one. When I tried to lay the deck sheet (6mm) over the top of the framework, because of the camber in the canoe, the centre support is raised above the side timbers meaning that it was almost impossible to apply enough pressure to the deck to get it to push down on the timbers for the epoxy. I ended up planning the centre support back to half its thickness so that the deck could be epoxied down. 6 mm ply wont bend down especially when it is close to the bow and therefore narrow. It is in place now but it was a task that required me to close the shed doors so that the neighbours couldn't hear the cussing. I have deck camber over the bulkhead and it goes flat pretty quickly after that towards the bow/stern. Any thoughts guys?

Cheers all
Phil

[Walesey]

Hi Phill,
I know exactly how you are feeling. I had exactly the same problem. If you go back to post #299 in this thread, you will read my moaning, but also see photos of the squizillion clamps that I used to hold it all down. In one photo, you will see the heavy duty clamp that I made out of an old tomato stake. Even with all this, my deck was proud of the gunwales by 1/2 mm or so in sevral places. I planed these down flush, and it looks OK from a distance!

I don't know why 4mm ply would not be sufficient for the decks. If I were to do another Eureka I would be tempted to go 4mm (unless Mik threatened violence against me, of course!)

I am glad yours all came together in the end.

Where are the pics?

All the best,
Walesey

[bitingmidge]

Phil,

I think I swore for two days without repeating myself! Back then there was no centre stringer, and I didn't want to go and buy a sheet of 4mm just for the two decks. As it turns out, I would have used it by now for all manner of things.

Here are a couple of pics from around post #98 - 105

The first one, shows my original pain! After I couldn't get the thing to stay curved, I planed the bottom veneer off and turned it into 5mm ply. That didn't work, so I made some cambered cauls, and epoxied the underside, thinking it'd keep the camber in place.

That didn't work either, but I thought I'd show you the pics so you know I was trying really really hard!

So in the end, I put the centreline stringer in, (it's now in the plan), and resorted to my best stand-by strategy in the absence of a hammer:

Brute strength, ignorance, and a roll of packaging tape.

Next time, use four mm ply, and packing tape, and you'll be able to work with the doors open!

Cheers,

P

[Boatmik]

Howdy All,

I certainly take on board that the end deck camber is the single most difficult part of building the boat. The other problem is that the camber is a big part of the great appearance.

After Midge's initial troubles getting the deck on I altered the plan, adding the centreline stringer and simplifying the cleat along the top of the bulkhead.

Using blocks (covered with the brown packaging tape so they won't be glued to the deck) along the edge of the deck will assist in getting enough pressure.

Certainly the 4mm ply is a better way to go. A large part of why it is better is because it is 3-ply (3 layers) - so it bends more easily than the 6mm which is normally 5-ply.

And I don't promise you that it will become the easiest part of building the Eureka either ( but it may reduce the wailing and gnashing of teeth!!!

The problem is a little compounded because the boat was originally built of 5mm ply which is a 3-ply too - but it is no longer available. So that leaves the options of 6mm or 4mm to build the boat.

Certainly you can get the extra offcut for the decks in 4mm as you suggest.

It is quite possible to build the whole boat can be built in 4mm - the hull is a little more complex to build in 4mm as the structure is a bit more floppy/wavy during the stitching process but the resulting boats are strong enough and I do recommend glassing the bottom up to 1" above the upper chine with a very light glass cloth as well - maybe a 2oz (75gsm or less).

I think that the 6mm is best for building the rest of the hull for a first time builder - just a bit more rigid resulting in the hull being more fair and not requiring any glass beyond the tape specified for the joins.

I will add something like this commentary to the plans with the suggestion that the extra sheet should be 4mm.

Best wishes
Michael

[bitingmidge]

I certainly take on board that the end deck camber is the single most difficult part of building the boat. The other problem is that the camber is a big part of the great appearance.

It's not bad, when putting a 50mm woof in a two foot wide sheet of play is the most difficult part of building a whole boat!

And you are absolutely correct. The cambered deck makes a huge difference to the appearance of the finished boat, and it's really worth the fiddle.

Once again, I made it harder for myself in this by not strictly following the plans, and increasing the degree of difficulty by a lot. If you check out Walesey's pic, you'll see how the clamps work, and by using a continuous batten rather than single pieces under the clamps the "waviness" he spoke of would be eliminated.

Cheers.

P

[Repete]

I have just finished an Eureka that began at the Duck Flat school. It was a wonderful opportunity to learn stitch & glue with very competent people. Thanks Mik!! I, too, struggled with the decks & found shaping the centre stringer to allow the deck to, effectively, sit flat was the solution. The camber is still retained for the first 200mm or so & is an essential part of the Eureka's beauty. I made a contraption of 2"x1" to force the deck down to the edge supports, using ratchet straps- worked well. Peter