Eureka Canoe

[Boatmik]

Timber in Philippines.

Howdy Skywoolf,

There are two threads for boats that were built in the Phils. I am pretty sure both have contacts for materials and so on ... but after one boat ... I am sure you have a pretty good idea.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/pdr-build-philippines-71388
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/pdr-sail-rig-spars-boatbuilding-philippines-69895

With the stickiness problem.

There are two potential causes.
One is the epoxy not mixed quite correctly ... so very important to get the ratios right. Sometimes I lose count or am not quite sure whether I have got it right. I always chuck the mix ... much better alternative than all the labour of fixing up a curing problem which is probably the worst type of problem to get. Sadly ... for me too ... this one is operator error and almost never the epoxy's fault!

The other is amine bloom or waxing. It is covered in the appendices of all my plans ... the waxy residue starts clogging the paper and making it sticky. Sometimes the surface of the clean cured epoxy has a greasy or damp feeling. This must be removed before sanding by washing the component using a plastic scourer and water ... before there used to be a recommendation to add a little cloudy ammonia but this has been dropped by West System in their advice.

The bow rope attachment point is not in the plan at all. Anything is optional. Personally I would use a fitting as you suggest.

As far as getting epoxy ... have a look at the links to some other boatbuilding local to you. The liquid epoxy that you add different powders to is far superior to the premixes .. and you need to be sure whether the premix is the right type for gluing or filling holes and gaps - they are quite different in strength.

There is a local Phils wooden boatbuilding group that is very active mentioned in those threads too ... they might offer some leads for materials. I think some are wedded to the "ultra cheap" end of boatbuilding ... which is good ... but there is a big reduction in life and increase of maintenance and weight if they talk you into going that way.

Best wishes
Michael

[Boatmik]

Another way would be to put two "transoms" one behind the other inside the stern of boat then cut a hole though the bottom between them for the engine to go down into the water. There are a lot of small fishing boats in Hong Kong built this way

It can work ... but there are two problems .. one is cutting away the bottom of the boat or cutting it off will reduce the paddling performance significantly. The other is that the method doesn't really work with narrow boats because you have to cut so much of the bottom away to allow the propeller to go through.

Two methods to work around.
One is to side mount using a bolt on piece that goes across the width of the boat with a pad on the end for the outboard to attach to and not too far back in the boat. The outboard needs to be quite light. If electric the battery needs to be well secured in the bottom middle of the boat.

A nice solution which someone once used as a dive boat was to use my outrigger plan and build only one extra hull and hang the outboard off the back of the rear crossbeam.

Best wishes
Michael

[Boatmik]

Another way would be to put two "transoms" one behind the other inside the stern of boat then cut a hole though the bottom between them for the engine to go down into the water. There are a lot of small fishing boats in Hong Kong built this way

It can work ... but there are two problems .. one is cutting away the bottom of the boat or cutting it off will reduce the paddling performance significantly. The other is that the method doesn't really work with narrow boats because you have to cut so much of the bottom away to allow the propeller to go through.

Two methods to work around.
One is to side mount using a bolt on piece that goes across the width of the boat with a pad on the end for the outboard to attach to and not too far back in the boat. The outboard needs to be quite light. If electric the battery needs to be well secured in the bottom middle of the boat.

A nice solution which someone once used as a dive boat was to use my outrigger plan and build only one extra hull and hang the outboard off the back of the rear crossbeam.

Best wishes
Michael

[Skywoolf]

Many thanks for taking the time to do a detailed reply and find the other posts, etc. This gives me a good starting point.

Good point re the double transom. I didn't think about the width of the canoe being too narrow. The motor would need enough space to turn after it is dropped down though the hole.

I have to confess that all my resin mix measurements have been "about that much" without any measuring at all other than by eye. I intend to order a lot of stuff from Bote-Cote as they have confirmed they can send anything I need by post. I will use locally bought resin and hardener so I just have to find out what the mix ration is supposed to be and buy pumps or something to measure the mix properly. My deck did not need huge strength as apart from a small reinforced area over the console for standing the rest is just for weather protection and electronics. It is all supported by a stainless steel frame anyway. These small boats are a very different thing so I want to get it right. I have the plans for the PDR and the Eureka so I will read them through carefully.

I followed the links in your post and one mentioned a boat being built in Davao. I will search further and also check the Pinoy boat building forums. It would be great to find someone in Davao who may know where to get good materials.

Frank

[Boatmik]

Howdy Frank,

I have seen wells fitted to a whole bunch of boats and the size of the hole is always surprising .. and there is not much boat in the ends with the Eureka. Also a tiny bit of extra drag has a big effect on a canoe. The Eureka is such a nice paddling boat it would be a shame to lose that. Also when singlehanded the canoe paddles in the opposite direction as the paddler will usually use the seat closer to the middle of the boat.

You can send a pm (personal message) to any person on the forum including the person in Davao. Just click on their name with your mouse and you will see the options.

Great to have another boat in the Phils!

Best wishes
Michael.

[Skywoolf]

Yes i agree the hole is usually very big. I am sure it could be much smaller for a little electric trolling motor but for the reasons you explain I see it would still not be a good way to put a motor on a canoe.

[Boatmik]

It depends a bit on the purpose.

If paddling is a main part of the purpose then it is a bad solution. For a boat that is meant to be motored mostly .... it may not be too bad.

MIK

[Skywoolf]

I guess it would be possible with some clever design to reduce the drag caused by the inner transom but hardly worth the effort when there are better alternatives.

[Boatmik]

Howdy SkyWoolf,

It isn't easy to design boats that are comfortable at low speeds of paddling and the higher speeds achievable with an outboard. It is not a trivial design problem at all.

Best wishes
Michael

[Skywoolf]

I am not at all surprised. I am seeing all the time that boat design is very complex needing a lot of knowledge and skills I don't have. Its it has become clear to me that even a minor design change could really ruin a boat.

I will be sticking pretty close to the plans for the boats I build.

[gdf26562]

Hey there

Well its taken about 6 months to finish the canoe and I hope to have the maiden voyage this Tuesday. It has been an intersting experience and should I feel the need to make another one I will use the lessons I have learnt along the way, at first I was a bit daunted by some of the terms, luckily this thread was a godsend. I was continually lurking in the back ground, as I was about to pose a question, I already found it asked....

A question with the paddles. I started to use some Oregon I had left over to do the shafts of the paddles, but found it would warp easy and the bloody knots, trying to find stright grained timber in Mildura is like trying to find rain.

So after a flinging the timber across the driveway I spotted some hard wood I had left over, I thought "Oh well at least it will be straight, although somewhat heavier" Very easy to work with and in the end it actually weighed less that the Oregon.

I would like to oil the shaft as i feel that putting epoxy and varnish would make it feel 'odd' but with oil i believe it would feel oh so smooth in my hands.

Would I still need to epoxy the blades???? or would the oil do the same job.

PS I use the house next door's garage to spray as it is condemned, hence the greenery

[gdf26562]

Opps, added now

[Boatmik]

Nice looking boat! Great!!!

The oil/varnish debate is a very long one!!!!

The main traditional arguement is that the varnish will crack and require a lot of stripping so the timber can dry out. But epoxy followed by varnish is not going to crack for a long long long time.

So it is mostly an aesthetic argument

MIK

[Ramps]

gd
I concur with Mik ... the debate is long and not conclusive .... so I compromised

I varnised my blades of the large paddles and oiled the handles ... why not? easy enough to do.
With the kids ones though I just varnished the whole lot ... thinking that they wouldn't be paddling for very long at any one time and they would have a higher probability of being used as shovels than paddles

All is very good so far. Paddle blades were not epoxied first and have assisted with launches off rocks and sand banks etc and are still doing really well. I figure they're an expendable item and I will be making more as these and my prototypes but are handling everything I have thrown at them so far so no need for change or replacement.

here's my paddles for assorted hardwoods (including Meranti) ... mostly from bunnings ...I think Mildura has a Bunnings warehouse! ... 15th st from memory

[gdf26562]

Thanks for that info, I ended up epoxying the paddles and oiling the handles feels nice to hold.

I decided to take the canoe down to the Murray River yesterday and launched her on my own, having never really paddled a canoe I had no idea what to expect. But it was not what I expected.

As I was on my own I decided to film it, funny to say the least, but in getting into the canoe i found it extremely hard to keep balanced, I think this had a lot to do with my technique, fell out a couple of times, luckily not on film, and on looking at the film later I realised that with just one person in the can the front (not sure of the nauticle term) end was out of the water by a long way, I weigh in around 95kgs, i gather this made it so rocky.

The seats are about 180mm high following what i read about seat hieght. Hopefully that is not to much of a problem, but towards the end of my frustrating paddling attempts I sat in the front seat and the controll was a lot easier and more steady, which made me think, "well it is a two man canoe" So i am heading out with a mate to see how it handles, which I have no doubt a lot better than my first attempt.

So if all goes well with two rather large blokes then all i will need is wieght in the front when i am on my own. The question is will we get wet????