Eureka Canoe

[tatolazo]

Hi Colburge and Flatdog:

Thanks for the inputs. I think I will go with copper wire, I have plenty of many sizes as i use them for bonsai wiring as well. The plans tell the distances between holes and how deep into the ply sheet they should be drilled considering the ply thickness.
Also I am planning to use epoxy resin mixed with aerosayl or cabosyl plus ffiberglass power, very fine, to make the fillets stronger.

Finally, could i repñlace the overall epoxy painting for two coats of shiny vitrifier barnish for wood floors?? it is high quality. i have to buy some for the main wood staris at home and it is a great prdouct that can be reapir in case of scratches.

If it is not suitable in a long term...i hace 2 or 3 spare liters of epoxy resin, but the product is water based and drys in few hours, so 2 or 3 coats can be apllied within a day.

Tato Lazo.

[Shas Cho]

Tato Lazo, hi.
I'm not familiar with any wood finish by that name,
but in general it has been my experience
that finishes designed for interior use
do not contain UV protection.
You might want to check on that;
boats tend to receive much more UV radiation than stairs do.

[tatolazo]

Shas Cho.

Your are right....I will double check if the product is UV protected if not, probably the cost of it plus Uv resistent transparent laquer will be higher than a good epoxy resin.

tato Lazo.

Tato Lazo, hi.
I'm not familiar with any wood finish by that name,
but in general it has been my experience
that finishes designed for interior use
do not contain UV protection.
You might want to check on that;
boats tend to receive much more UV radiation than stairs do.

[blue sailor]

Shas Cho.

Your are right....I will double check if the product is UV protected if not, probably the cost of it plus Uv resistent transparent laquer will be higher than a good epoxy resin.

tato Lazo.

I don't believe that epoxy is uv resistant either. You have to paint or varnish over it

[blue sailor]

After my last post, i recalled seeing an epoxy product that had uv inhibitors added to it. Its made by marinepoxy and you can find it here: Boat Builder Central - products | Fiberglass | Marine Plywood | Marine Epoxy.

Its the last item at the bottom of the page. The description states that it is "Ideal for surfboards, kayaks, or other applications where a laminates are exposed to the sun". System Three and Resin

Research also sell epoxies with UV inhibitors, but market them to surfboard makers as well.

If anyone knows what the difference is I would appreciate an explanation.

[Shas Cho]

I don't believe that epoxy is uv resistant either. You have to paint or varnish over it

Duh.
You're right. of course.
Which is why I varnished over the epoxy
on my strip-built canoe.
*blushing*

[Boatmik]

After my last post, i recalled seeing an epoxy product that had uv inhibitors added to it. Its made by marinepoxy and you can find it here: Boat Builder Central - products | Fiberglass | Marine Plywood | Marine Epoxy.

Its the last item at the bottom of the page. The description states that it is "Ideal for surfboards, kayaks, or other applications where a laminates are exposed to the sun". System Three and Resin

Research also sell epoxies with UV inhibitors, but market them to surfboard makers as well.

If anyone knows what the difference is I would appreciate an explanation.

Howdy,

The Bote Cote range had a UV resistant epoxy out a few years ago but it devolved into the standard epoxy now.

Basically I would still expect that you have to coat it with varnish or paint. A call or email to the manufacturer would be good idea.

BUT if it is similar to the Bote Cote tech it would mean quite a lot for builders of larger boats with sections that will be finished clear.

1/ The UV inhibitors reduce the risk of the epoxy degrading and "chalking" - losing all its structural integrity. I don't expect that it will never need a coating, just it gives you a longer time before the degrade occurs giving you more time for building. Mostly relevant to bigger boats in less than ideal building situations.

2/ The components for the epoxy have been chosen on the basis of non yellowing. Some epoxies can yellow quite quickly in direct sun or semi direct sun. So if you are building a strip planked canoe or boat intended to be finished bright it means less yellowing when in the build and then once in use the UV varnish will protect the epoxy - but over the years the epoxy will go more yellow. A choice of more expensive components can reduce this problem.

Clear finishes are quite interesting in the way they break down. Most think that when varnish starts peeling off that the varnish has deteriorated. Usually it is the UV inhibitors that have given up and resulted in the wood fibre that the varnish is stuck to breaking down. They break down enough and then the varnish lifts off in sheets. Total varnish breakdown and a loss of the varnish structure usually results in a powdery result with the varnish abrading very easily.

Many UV filters used in epoxy or varnish break down or are used over time - thus the reason for more coats of varnish to add new layers of filters. The number of coats usually varies with the exposure of the boat to the weather.

A canoe that is used a few days a year might just need epoxy and three coats of varnish. A bigger boat that is stored in shelter - I would go the normal six coats - just because any breakdown is such a big job to fix. For boats that are permanently outside - the manufacturer's recommended six coats plus any extra you can get on - and the thing that makes the biggest difference ... COVERS for the boat or the varnished areas in that case

MIK

[Boatmik]

Tato Lazo, hi.
I'm not familiar with any wood finish by that name,
but in general it has been my experience
that finishes designed for interior use
do not contain UV protection.
You might want to check on that;
boats tend to receive much more UV radiation than stairs do.

Very true. Often the marine varnishes for the inside of boats - usually advertised with a matte or semi gloss finish are very poor at UV resistance too.

On bigger yachts I always used spar varnish (best uv protection) in the companionway and any areas immediately inside. Then the rest of the interior can be satin if that's what you like. The gloss is a bit harder wearing too - so sometimes some timber trim on the interior of a boat done with a low gloss varnish it can be good to do areas that will get wear - timber trim on the edges of bulkheads, galley and furniture - can be done in gloss.

MIK

[Cabra Loca]

Hi Eureka’s people,
herewith a video and a blog of a new Eureka Canoe, freshly made in Uruguay.
Canoe Eureka - "La Savonniere" - Uruguay - YouTube
Canoe Eureka - Daiquiiiri
The idea is to add outriggers and a sail, in a second stage.
Thanks Mic for the very easy and “didactic” plans.
This is my second Storer's construction. The other one is a very nice Goat Island Skiff.
I used five month to made the canoe, during free time and some week-ends.
Her named is “La Savonniere” (Soap Dish, in French. Name of a neighbourhood near the lake of Geneva, Switzerland, where a learned to sail a lot of years ago…).
I hope to show you some new videos at the end of Austral summer.
Cheers

[tatolazo]

Belive it or not, I have been months waiting for 6mm plywood and it is out of stock .

Finally, some 3 mm plywood is arriving. It is not so strong as the inner layer is white pine and outer layers are a good quality wood. The next thickness is 9,mm so I have two choices:
1.- wait forever the 6mm ply.
2.- use 3 mm ply and put 6 oz. fiberglass cloth all over exterior of the boat and to the floor on the inside the center, just a little over the side pannels.

What do you think. ???

will 3mm ply do the job or should i avoid to construct the canoe with it??

Hope you can help.

Tato Lazo

[Cabra Loca]

Hi Tato,
PLS contact Michael Storer.
Some people built a 3mm Eureka, but apparantly is a hard work.

Belive it or not, I have been months waiting for 6mm plywood and it is out of stock .

Finally, some 3 mm plywood is arriving. It is not so strong as the inner layer is white pine and outer layers are a good quality wood. The next thickness is 9,mm so I have two choices:
1.- wait forever the 6mm ply.
2.- use 3 mm ply and put 6 oz. fiberglass cloth all over exterior of the boat and to the floor on the inside the center, just a little over the side pannels.

What do you think. ???

will 3mm ply do the job or should i avoid to construct the canoe with it??

Hope you can help.

Tato Lazo

[tatolazo]

Hi :
emailed Michael the same day, no answer at all so far!.
probably i better should get a plastic kayak and save the wood handwork for some other project.!
Tato Lazo

[colburge]

Hi

I used 4mm and it is more than strong enough, I don't think you would have any problem at all with 3mm if you do as you say with the fibreglass matting. I am not 100% positive but I think Michael had a link on his website to a couple that made a Eureka out of 3mm that weighed very little. I will have a look for you later if you can't find it, as I have to rush out the door to get to work.

Cheers

Col

[b.o.a.t.]

Hi Tato
MIK isn't always in internet range - he travels a bit.

A really light plywood Eureka Canoe – 34lbs/15.5kg | Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans

3mm should ok provided that it is good quality ply.
The outer layers are most important as they are the load-bearing layers.
The middle layer is a spacer rather than a strength element, but it must be free of long or wide voids.
If there are voids, the outer plys will buckle across the gap and possibly fail.
The glue must be "A-bond" - waterproof.

Provided the plywood meets the above, the boat will be strong enough for respectful handling.
Wouldn't recommend playing in white water with it though.
6 oz cloth will provide good abrasion & puncture resistance, but shouldn't be regarded as a replacement
for strength of good quality ply. Quite aside from anything else, the weight of epoxy needed to wet-out
6 oz cloth will bring the boat nearly up to the same weight as one built out of 6mm ply, but not as strong.
MIK put the numbers up in this forum several years ago, and has them on his web-ste somewhere, I think.
Glass is heavy, epoxy is heavy. Use sparingly !

cheers
Alan J

[b.o.a.t.]

Also
Eureka Lightweight Plywood Canoes - more pictures and review - Michael Storer Boat Design