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28th November 2010, 04:20 AM #436
Thanks! Great report of a great day of racing.
Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
Gardens of Fenwick
Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento
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28th November 2010 04:20 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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28th November 2010, 04:56 PM #437
Looks like I under estimated the wind strength yesterday. The forecast of 25 knots was pretty well right!
The red highlight shows the 24kt (44km/h)gusts that had me flying
Attachment 154292
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29th November 2010, 11:23 AM #438
You are a madman, my friend! I think just a little bit sadly that I would have done the same! But maybe I would have capsized on the run (or maybe not) Would be really interesting to get out there with two people aboard and see what happened. Very interesting observation about the GIS nosediving less than a Laser, Lasers are not toooo bad on the nosediving front - so that pinched in stern helps balance the fine bow of the Goat. Nice stuff indeed. MIK
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29th November 2010, 12:23 PM #439
Hi Mik
The Goat is fantastic on reaches and runs and I haven't ever come close to burying the bow off the wind. She rides up to the waves very nicely if you are sitting back far enough. On Saturday I was obviously planing downwind much faster than the waves, and they were close enough together that as the wave I was on passed behind what I guess could be called the "balance point", which is where it begins to surf, the bow would just land on top of the next wave. But this is lake sailing as opposed to sailing in a sea or lagoon where you are surfing down a swell and it's easier to bury it.
Perhaps the Lasers were affected because of the shorter waterline length? Anyway, I was just happy to get some of the advantage back that I didn't have on the beats and the close reaches.
As for the shock cord on the rudder blade, I'm going to try a new kind. It's flat, not round, and I'm hoping a bit stronger.
Adjusting the foot was hard too. I had tensioned the foot quite a lot to depower the sail, but could not get anywhere near the boom in those conditions to adjust it, so just sailed like that for the whole time. Ideally I should have let it off somewhat for the reaches. Another reason that a crew would have helped.
I'm really confident now with the gybes. I think that a light boom helps a lot with keeping it flat. There is very little tendency to round up and the rudder grips nicely.
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10th December 2010, 07:00 PM #440Senior Member
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Hi Woodeneye, now that you've been through a cycle or two of rig development and had a chance to race against the lasers a couple of times, what are your impressions of the gains from the stiffer yard and dowhhaul/boom vang combination? Are they noticeable /significant?
Ian
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10th December 2010, 08:01 PM #441
Hi Ian
The stiff yard...definitely the way to go. There is a lot more power in my sail mainly because it is setting correctly. I'm not sure if it's just my sail or not, but it goes to crap with the bendy yard. I will now look at upgrading to a lighter spar, either carbon or glass.
The vang/downhaul works well, but it's definitely not a set and forget arrangement. You have to realise it needs adjustment constantly, or at least when changing points of sailing as happens on a race course. If this is not what people want, then they should stick with the original downhaul design, which is simple and works well. However, my competitive streak has come back and I love to optimise and try new things, fiddle around to try to get the best out of my rig and sail etc.....well, some might understand, others wont!
On the beats, I'm pulling the rig back to get the helm balanced and to point as high as the Lasers. This involves slackening the vang, pulling on the downhaul, and then maybe some more vang once the boom is where it needs to be.
For reaching, it's letting the downhaul go all the way out and pulling on the vang hard. This pushes the boom forward and takes off some of the excess weather helm. Then some more downhaul to fine tune the luff, which on reaches sometimes has a slight curve on it. If I can manage it, I'll release some tension in the foot too. Dead set, she just takes off on a reach and sings if you can get the settings right.
For runs, it is the downhaul freed right off initially, then some savage vang to get the boom across the mast even more than for the reaches, then a bit more downhaul to fine tune the luff, and then maybe even release some excess vang now that the boom is across enough to set the leach.
See what I mean about fiddling?! You wouldn't need to do this on a Bermuda rig, but when there is a lot of pressure on the balanced lug, you have to use the vang/downhaul combination to get the boom positioned, and then fine tune each control to set the leach and luff correctly. But I'm loving the control I get from the set-up.
I now have some extra heavy duty elastic straps on the rudder blade too. Last outing in around 20-24 knots by myself, I was planing the fastest I had ever been on reaches and runs, and the blade was lifting back even with big 10mm tie-down elastic straps that were really tight! I'm now trialling the flat type to see if this works better. The problem when the rudder kicks back like that is maintaining control, especially when I need to gybe. I simply can't because with the rudder in that position I'll be swimming for sure
Edit: One thing I have learned from the Lasers is that the line traveler system needs to be drum tight in strong winds so as to keep the boom out at the corner of the transom. If it's a little loose, the boom comes too far inboard and the sail is twisted too much. I was not tensioning mine enough, so the boom was coming too far inboard on the beats. In lighter winds it can be slackened off to bring the boom more inboard. This was the opposite to how I thought this system worked! I've always used a track on my other boats, so have not had experience with this type.
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11th December 2010, 01:09 AM #442
I thought that was one of the Bermuda's strong suits: infinite fiddle-ability. Vang, outhaul, cunnigham, backstay tension... these are all common Bermuda adjustments not normally found on a balance lug, no? Or were you saying that on the same course you needed to do all that fiddling while Bermuda rigged Lasers were set-it-and-forget-it?
Dave
StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread
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11th December 2010, 05:49 AM #443
Hi Dave
Yes, the controls on a balanced lug perform an extra function compared to a Bermuda rig. On a balanced lug, they also position the boom relative to the mast, ie. forward, back and across, ie. port/starboard. Then you further adjust each from there according to how the sail needs to be trimmed.
This position relative to the mast is to adjust weather/lee helm, which changes on different points of sailing. On a dead run, bringing the boom across the mast a bit seems to reduce rolling and induce a bit more stability in strong winds.
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13th December 2010, 08:53 AM #444
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13th December 2010, 01:25 PM #445
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14th December 2010, 11:55 AM #446
Howdy Bruce,
Depends on how much you are up to.
The pics are the easiest way to do it and allow for more explanation.
A video can be a good introduction - I was just imagining the boat propped on its side with gravity shaping the sail and running through how you set up for different points of sail. From experience any requirement for the wind to fill the sails for a video means it will flip to the opposite direction or stop completely whenever anyone says "action".
I think you can get away with pics only, but if you thought a video would be fun ... well ... I could only agree. No pressure of course!!!
I would be very happy to put the info on my website with appropriate accreditation.
MIK
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14th December 2010, 03:44 PM #447Senior Member
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Hi Bruce,
What are the positions of the downhaul and vang attachments to your boom now?
Measurements in terms of distance from the sail tack would probably be easiest to understand.
I'm putting my boom together at the moment, sail should also arrive this week.
Many thanks,
Ian
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15th December 2010, 09:24 AM #448
Hi Ian
No problem, I'll get those measurements for you this evening when I get home.
Have you thought about how you are going to attach the throat of the sail to the yard? If you have enough thickness or reinforcing at that spot, a pop rivet will do it. If not, perhaps a pop rivet with a washer on the inside, if you can reach!
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15th December 2010, 09:59 AM #449
I’ve been thinking about the racing I’ve been doing and where I’m losing out to the Lasers is upwind in a decent breeze. I’m pointing a bit higher than them which is great, but the 105 sf of sail is overpowering me. No problem on the reaches, except if they are very close.
After last weekend when I got second outright in 15-17 kts (beaten by a Laser, but with 3 lasers and a 470 without a spinnaker behind me), I’ve been thinking about a fixed leaning plank installed over the mid seat. I know that if I can just keep the power on, I will be much faster upwind.
It will need to be curved to keep it out of the water most of the time, but it would be easy enough to fit. A couple of blocks glued to the underside of the plank which fit into the spacer holes of the inwale and then simply lashed on for racing. It would probably also need a lashing around the mid seat as well to stop it springing up.
I figure that a 600mm extension will provide enough leverage, but that might be too close to the gunwale for comfort. I’ve never used a leaning plank so I really am looking for advice.
I was thinking of making it out of 2 layers of leftover Okoume 6mm ply, epoxy laminated together, but am not sure if this would be strong enough? I weigh 70kg.
I’m also looking for ideas about how to curve such a long plank.
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15th December 2010, 11:37 AM #450Senior Member
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Yes, I've also been thinking of some leaning plank ideas, good to hear someone shares the madness. I think it might need a couple of rails along either edge to stiffen it up rather than doubling up the ply thickness. Some lamination of Paulownia with some hardwood along the outside edge perhaps. If you/we can some up with an existing spec that is strong enough, perhaps we can figure out the equivalent in something light and convenient enough to construct.
Thanks for getting some measurements on your boom vang and downhaul attachment points.
I've got a cunning plan for my throat attachment, it should keep that point absolutely immovable without the need to drill any holes in the carbon. Basically a hardwood block glued on with a longways groove to take the sail and a crossways grove to locate a lashing that goes all the way around the spar. Lashing from 2 or 3mm spectra.
Ian
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