Likes Likes:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Perth hills
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,060

    Default Shooting board limitations.

    After seeing Terry Gordons shoting board demonstration, I raced home and and made one that afternoon, it's just an MDF contraption and it'll probably wear pretty quick but It's realyl just a concept prover at the moment.

    Anyhoot, it works beautifully for end grain on think stock (anything less that 19mm thick). But for larger stock, say 45x100mm it just wont slice.

    So, the questions:

    1) Is this a sharpness and plane setting issue i.e finest cut possible
    2) Is this beyond a shooting board
    3) If it is, how do you get a large piece of stock perfectly square at the end. I can get it pretty close with my ryoba but it's nice to be able to shave of .01mm's at a time to get it schmicko.
    4) I'm not getting a SCMS!
    Cheers,

    Adam

    ------------------------------------------

    I can cure you of your Sinistrophobia

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    Here's a link that may be of interest. This guy reckons up to about 25mm or so...

    http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...otingindex.htm
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    Adam

    Shooting boards (and other guides) are there to make sure that you cut squarely, not simply to aid in slicing end grain, per se. I have a couple of shooting boards (1 x square and 1 x mitre), neither of which are ramped like Terry's (which is a beauty, isn't it!!).

    I think that the major argument against a thick board is the limitation of the blade width. A 2" wide blade is unlikely to be able to cut more than 1" on a ramped table.

    A ramped table is not necessary. In fact, neither of mine are (but I plan to change that this afternoon, just because). The reason for the ramped table is to present the blade at an angle to the timber, which lowers the effective cutting angle of the blade. The best planes for cutting end grain are those with a low cutting angle.

    Look at the "best" (and most expensive!) shooting board, the Stanley #51/52. The plane is angled to slice obliquely. Purpose made mitre planes, such as those made by Spiers or Norris (and the copy by LN) are very low angle. My low angle jack plane, the Stanley #162, is purpose made for end grain slicing, which is why I did not bother with a ramp.

    After the Show I went home and sharpened up the blade on my HNT Gordon Try Plane and tried this out - on pine! Not bad, not bad at all. Not at good as my #162, but the Try Plane has the advantage of a very long "nose", which makes cutting longer pieces easier on my short shooting board. I just clean it up with the #162 (or anly low angle block plane) afterwards.

    Incidentally, slicing pine end grain is extremely challenging - probably the best test of all. End grain jarrah is hardly a test - the wood fibres hold together more securely. Pine requires a very sharp blade.

    I am presently building several (8) drawers for a chest. Some of them are quite deep and I have to join two pieces of timber. I used the shooting board to do the jointing (ordinarily I clamp and plane the two pieces together), and they came out perfect, so much so that the gaps are invisible.

    Incidentally, I made my shooting boards out of white melamine-covered MDF (this is less harsh on the blade body and makes it easier to slide), and 3mm MDF. Glued the 3mm on top leaving room to slide the plane. Jarrah fence at the end.

    You are very welcome to come and have a play with my toys at my workshop. Just give me a call.

    Regards

    Derek

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Over there a bit
    Age
    17
    Posts
    2,511

    Default

    I love the idea of the melamine shooting board. i've seen Silents link to the ramped version before, It's a gonna do thing.

    I have real work tomorrow in the shed, maybe I'll find time to knock up a DerekandSilentmelaminerampedshooting board. Wotya reckon.
    Boring signature time again!

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Boyne Island, Queensland
    Age
    51
    Posts
    929

    Default

    I always thought that the ramped shooting board was designed to even out the wear on the blade. My shooting board isn't ramped and if working with thin boards then it's a bit frustrating to have to resharpen a blade that is still as sharp as it was before you started apart from the 10mm or so that has been doing all the work.
    Dan

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    Dan

    You are right in that an advantage of a ramped shooting board will even out wear - one reason why I plan to make one - but the main reason is to reduce the blades' effective cutting angle.

    Have a look here: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num52

    This is the #51/52 shooting board. Notice that the affair is flat but the plane's blade, itself, is skewed.

    I'll post a couple of pics of my melamine shooting board later.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Perth W.A
    Age
    57
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Good evening gentlemen,

    Just a quick one...The shooting boards that Terry was selling are brilliant, I bought one and highly recommend them.

    they work much better than my old one wich I used to slick up with a bit of wax, the wood seems to have a good slick surface with little preperation.

    and the slanted board makes it seem more natural with the downward motion making it easier to cut, my old board was flat...it never occured to me to ramp it.

    the melamine would definatly be a cheaper option and I recon slick too.

    Regards

    Steve

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,810

    Default

    Here are pics of my Quick-and-Dirty shooting boards. They should take about 15 minutes each (max) to make. But they work very well and enable accurate angles to be planed.

    Use these for planing end grain square or mitred but perpendicular to the faces. Or for jointing short lengths (450 mm).

    They are built from 20 mm melamine with a layer of 6 mm MDF. The fences and hooks are jarrah. All off cuts.

    I clamp the hooks into a vise for extra rigidity.

    The pictures should be self-explanatory. A couple of the boards, one of squaring the end grain of a scrap of pine off cut, and the final result. Plane used was a Stanley #62 low angle jack. Blade not really sharp enough!

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Boyne Island, Queensland
    Age
    51
    Posts
    929

    Default

    I've been away and had a think (always dangerous), drew some diagrams and even draged out the calculator. After a while I realised that it doesn't matter how much angle the ramp has, a skew cut is not possible while the cutting edge of the blade is perpendicular to the direction of the plane motion (which it always will be when using a regular plane on a shooting board).

    To put it another way, imagine making a normal skew cut on a large panel, you angle the plane and then push it along in the same direction as you would if making a straight cut. Now just imagine that the timber had some grit on it that left scratches in your plane sole. The scratches would run across the plane sole at the same angle as the plane was scewed (indicating a skew cut was made). On a ramped shooting board (using the same gritty wood), the scratches will always run parallel along the sole (no matter what the ramp angle is).

    Or to picture it another way. Imaging planing the end grain of a piece of dowel. Can the angle of the ramp affect how the plane slices the wood?
    Dan

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    Dan,

    I think I get you. It is a different scenario to making a skew cut as you describe where you push the plane in the direction of the grain but have the blade at an angle to the direction of travel.

    On the ramped shooting board, the surface along which the plane travels is not parallel to the surface on which your stock sits. So as you slide the plane along, the blade moves sideways in relation to the stock. The 'scratches' from the grit are still parallel to the plane sides but they are skewed in relation to the stock.

    The blade is at an angle to the stock but not to the direction of travel, however the blade is slicing downwards at the same time as it moves forward giving a lower effective cutting angle. The angle of the ramp subtitutes for the sideways movement in a normal skew cut. At least that's how I visualise it. It's a bit difficult this early in the morning.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oxley, Brisbane
    Age
    79
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Try imagining the ramp at 45 degrees and you will be able to visualise it more clearly.
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Port Sorell, TAS
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Willson
    Try imagining the ramp at 45 degrees and you will be able to visualise it more clearly.
    I'm with Dan on this one. THe ramped board at 45 degrees is akin to holding a board vertically in the vise, and planing across the end of it at 45 deg,with the plane's sole parallel to the direction of travel, ie there is no change in the effective angle of wood vs plane.

    The sloped job does look good however. I might make one anyway.
    The only way to get rid of a [Domino] temptation is to yield to it. Oscar Wilde

    .....so go4it people!

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    OK, I'm with you now. I drew a picture while I was having the morning coffee.

    So what is the advantage of a ramped board?

    When you start the cut, there is very little of the stock in contact with the blade but as you push through it spreads across the width and eventually you end up with more of the blade in contact with the stock than you would if you were not using the ramp. Is it just to spread the cut along the blade on small stock? Wouldn't the one spot of the blade still wear quicker than the rest anyway?
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Boyne Island, Queensland
    Age
    51
    Posts
    929

    Default

    The ramp is only low and the stock must be small enough to allow the blade to cut the whole edge. You can plane a narrow thick board or a wide thin board (thinking about end grain only) but if you try a thick wide board, the top edge closest to you will be out of reach of the blade so you would have to swap back to an unramped board.
    Dan

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    Yes, it's effectively decreasing the size of stock you can plane. So what is the advantage?
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •