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Thread: Shooting board limitations.
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16th August 2004, 12:07 PM #1
Shooting board limitations.
After seeing Terry Gordons shoting board demonstration, I raced home and and made one that afternoon, it's just an MDF contraption and it'll probably wear pretty quick but It's realyl just a concept prover at the moment.
Anyhoot, it works beautifully for end grain on think stock (anything less that 19mm thick). But for larger stock, say 45x100mm it just wont slice.
So, the questions:
1) Is this a sharpness and plane setting issue i.e finest cut possible
2) Is this beyond a shooting board
3) If it is, how do you get a large piece of stock perfectly square at the end. I can get it pretty close with my ryoba but it's nice to be able to shave of .01mm's at a time to get it schmicko.
4) I'm not getting a SCMS!Cheers,
Adam
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I can cure you of your Sinistrophobia
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16th August 2004 12:07 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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16th August 2004, 12:16 PM #2
Here's a link that may be of interest. This guy reckons up to about 25mm or so...
http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...otingindex.htm"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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16th August 2004, 07:32 PM #3
Adam
Shooting boards (and other guides) are there to make sure that you cut squarely, not simply to aid in slicing end grain, per se. I have a couple of shooting boards (1 x square and 1 x mitre), neither of which are ramped like Terry's (which is a beauty, isn't it!!).
I think that the major argument against a thick board is the limitation of the blade width. A 2" wide blade is unlikely to be able to cut more than 1" on a ramped table.
A ramped table is not necessary. In fact, neither of mine are (but I plan to change that this afternoon, just because). The reason for the ramped table is to present the blade at an angle to the timber, which lowers the effective cutting angle of the blade. The best planes for cutting end grain are those with a low cutting angle.
Look at the "best" (and most expensive!) shooting board, the Stanley #51/52. The plane is angled to slice obliquely. Purpose made mitre planes, such as those made by Spiers or Norris (and the copy by LN) are very low angle. My low angle jack plane, the Stanley #162, is purpose made for end grain slicing, which is why I did not bother with a ramp.
After the Show I went home and sharpened up the blade on my HNT Gordon Try Plane and tried this out - on pine! Not bad, not bad at all. Not at good as my #162, but the Try Plane has the advantage of a very long "nose", which makes cutting longer pieces easier on my short shooting board. I just clean it up with the #162 (or anly low angle block plane) afterwards.
Incidentally, slicing pine end grain is extremely challenging - probably the best test of all. End grain jarrah is hardly a test - the wood fibres hold together more securely. Pine requires a very sharp blade.
I am presently building several (8) drawers for a chest. Some of them are quite deep and I have to join two pieces of timber. I used the shooting board to do the jointing (ordinarily I clamp and plane the two pieces together), and they came out perfect, so much so that the gaps are invisible.
Incidentally, I made my shooting boards out of white melamine-covered MDF (this is less harsh on the blade body and makes it easier to slide), and 3mm MDF. Glued the 3mm on top leaving room to slide the plane. Jarrah fence at the end.
You are very welcome to come and have a play with my toys at my workshop. Just give me a call.
Regards
Derek
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16th August 2004, 08:26 PM #4
I love the idea of the melamine shooting board. i've seen Silents link to the ramped version before, It's a gonna do thing.
I have real work tomorrow in the shed, maybe I'll find time to knock up a DerekandSilentmelaminerampedshooting board. Wotya reckon.Boring signature time again!
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16th August 2004, 08:56 PM #5SENIOR MEMBER
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I always thought that the ramped shooting board was designed to even out the wear on the blade. My shooting board isn't ramped and if working with thin boards then it's a bit frustrating to have to resharpen a blade that is still as sharp as it was before you started apart from the 10mm or so that has been doing all the work.
Dan
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16th August 2004, 09:46 PM #6
Dan
You are right in that an advantage of a ramped shooting board will even out wear - one reason why I plan to make one - but the main reason is to reduce the blades' effective cutting angle.
Have a look here: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num52
This is the #51/52 shooting board. Notice that the affair is flat but the plane's blade, itself, is skewed.
I'll post a couple of pics of my melamine shooting board later.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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16th August 2004, 11:55 PM #7
Good evening gentlemen,
Just a quick one...The shooting boards that Terry was selling are brilliant, I bought one and highly recommend them.
they work much better than my old one wich I used to slick up with a bit of wax, the wood seems to have a good slick surface with little preperation.
and the slanted board makes it seem more natural with the downward motion making it easier to cut, my old board was flat...it never occured to me to ramp it.
the melamine would definatly be a cheaper option and I recon slick too.
Regards
Steve
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17th August 2004, 12:07 AM #8
Here are pics of my Quick-and-Dirty shooting boards. They should take about 15 minutes each (max) to make. But they work very well and enable accurate angles to be planed.
Use these for planing end grain square or mitred but perpendicular to the faces. Or for jointing short lengths (450 mm).
They are built from 20 mm melamine with a layer of 6 mm MDF. The fences and hooks are jarrah. All off cuts.
I clamp the hooks into a vise for extra rigidity.
The pictures should be self-explanatory. A couple of the boards, one of squaring the end grain of a scrap of pine off cut, and the final result. Plane used was a Stanley #62 low angle jack. Blade not really sharp enough!
Regards from Perth
Derek
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17th August 2004, 12:12 AM #9SENIOR MEMBER
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I've been away and had a think (always dangerous), drew some diagrams and even draged out the calculator. After a while I realised that it doesn't matter how much angle the ramp has, a skew cut is not possible while the cutting edge of the blade is perpendicular to the direction of the plane motion (which it always will be when using a regular plane on a shooting board).
To put it another way, imagine making a normal skew cut on a large panel, you angle the plane and then push it along in the same direction as you would if making a straight cut. Now just imagine that the timber had some grit on it that left scratches in your plane sole. The scratches would run across the plane sole at the same angle as the plane was scewed (indicating a skew cut was made). On a ramped shooting board (using the same gritty wood), the scratches will always run parallel along the sole (no matter what the ramp angle is).
Or to picture it another way. Imaging planing the end grain of a piece of dowel. Can the angle of the ramp affect how the plane slices the wood?Dan
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17th August 2004, 09:29 AM #10
Dan,
I think I get you. It is a different scenario to making a skew cut as you describe where you push the plane in the direction of the grain but have the blade at an angle to the direction of travel.
On the ramped shooting board, the surface along which the plane travels is not parallel to the surface on which your stock sits. So as you slide the plane along, the blade moves sideways in relation to the stock. The 'scratches' from the grit are still parallel to the plane sides but they are skewed in relation to the stock.
The blade is at an angle to the stock but not to the direction of travel, however the blade is slicing downwards at the same time as it moves forward giving a lower effective cutting angle. The angle of the ramp subtitutes for the sideways movement in a normal skew cut. At least that's how I visualise it. It's a bit difficult this early in the morning."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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17th August 2004, 10:49 AM #11
Try imagining the ramp at 45 degrees and you will be able to visualise it more clearly.
Bob Willson
The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.
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17th August 2004, 11:59 AM #12Originally Posted by Bob Willson
The sloped job does look good however. I might make one anyway.The only way to get rid of a [Domino] temptation is to yield to it. Oscar Wilde
.....so go4it people!
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17th August 2004, 12:32 PM #13
OK, I'm with you now. I drew a picture while I was having the morning coffee.
So what is the advantage of a ramped board?
When you start the cut, there is very little of the stock in contact with the blade but as you push through it spreads across the width and eventually you end up with more of the blade in contact with the stock than you would if you were not using the ramp. Is it just to spread the cut along the blade on small stock? Wouldn't the one spot of the blade still wear quicker than the rest anyway?"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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17th August 2004, 12:53 PM #14SENIOR MEMBER
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The ramp is only low and the stock must be small enough to allow the blade to cut the whole edge. You can plane a narrow thick board or a wide thin board (thinking about end grain only) but if you try a thick wide board, the top edge closest to you will be out of reach of the blade so you would have to swap back to an unramped board.
Dan
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17th August 2004, 01:23 PM #15
Yes, it's effectively decreasing the size of stock you can plane. So what is the advantage?
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."