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Thread: Texas GIS

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Savannah GA USA
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    583

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    I used it, too, on an even smaller scale. I was making Payson butt splices in the side strakes for my SSS18; strakes 3 required two full lengths of plywood plus about 12 inches more. I tacked the short lengths to one of the long lengths using two drops of hot-melt. That was enough to keep the pieces aligned and together during the next step. On a very cold morning I warmed all the parts and resin with a small space heater, then spot-warmed the joints with a hair dryer. When "warm enough" I carried one strake at a time outside where I slathered the resin on and into the joint then laid down the 'glass patch and wet it out good. When I checked the bottoms of the joints I saw a nice even line of resin had passed through the joint, supposedly due to the capillary action of warm parts suddenly cooled. The joints were strong enough to handle and fit to the hull with only one side 'glassed. Once the strakes were installed I applied the 'glass patches across the insides of the joints.

    When I get a round tuit I'm going to clamp up a small test piece of thin strips, heat them (along with the clamps) in the oven (to 130 plus a little), then brush on some warmed resin. When cured I will cut through the layers to see how much (or IF ) the epoxy penetrated.
    The "Cosmos Mariner,"My Goat Island Skiff
    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/MiddleAgesMan/

    Starting the Simmons Sea Skiff 18
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

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  3. #167
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    69
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    And here we are over in 'Stralia trying to keep our resin cool enough to get some work work time and you guys are heating it up!

  4. #168
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portland, ME USA
    Posts
    837

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    Just catching up on this thread...so did we nail the solution? or cause, anyway.

    Cheers,
    Clint

  5. #169
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
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    8,138

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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleAgesMan View Post
    When I get a round tuit I'm going to clamp up a small test piece of thin strips, heat them (along with the clamps) in the oven (to 130 plus a little), then brush on some warmed resin. When cured I will cut through the layers to see how much (or IF ) the epoxy penetrated.
    It is fun to try, but I would be really wary of this method. The worst cases of sensitisation to the epoxy that I know of where people who heated the epoxy and heated the workplace with poor ventilation.

    Additionally if a few test pieces work OK, there is no proof that it is being sucked up the joins on a particular job.

    I recommend physically putting epoxy on each surface that you have to glue and then clamp it together. That way you KNOW the epoxy is there.

    Additionally there is a structural argument. The epoxy is much tougher with an appropriate gluing powder in it. It will also be less gap filling. If the join widens out in some area where you might not be able to observe it then it might not fill the void but pause where the gap increases because of the drop in capillary action.

    Because something CAN be done doesn't mean it is a good idea.

    Best wishes
    Michael

  6. #170
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

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    Quote Originally Posted by Compass Project View Post
    John if you haven't glued chine logs down yet, put a bevel on the top edge so that the c'logs have a flat on the top parallel to top of bulkheads so gunk doesn't accumulate there. It makes cutting notches ever so slightly more difficult. If you didn't don't worry. Just a tip.

    --Clint
    You guys know I love models and mock-ups. So here is another one based on bulkhead #4. If you put a bevel on the top of the chine log it would measure about 8mm to 10mm down. I cut this one at 10mm to match the chine log overhang of 10mm and it looked about right for getting the top of the chine log level with the floor. At this bevel angle it would drain water easily. It also put the top of the chine log almost parallel to the bottom bulkhead timber at #4.

    As the chine log stands up (becomes more vertical) as it gets closer to the bow that 10mm bevel will visually become more steep. It will require some "slightly" more difficult notches in the forward bulkheads.

    As it intersects the stem or transom there will be a little less gluing surface.

    Does anyone think this would weaken the chine of the boat?

    Another question is those of you with sailing Goats, do you use the corner of the chine log to stand on? I can see it being a good toe/heel hold if it is kept square.

    Something I learned doing this mockup.
    It showed me why the 10mm overhang is called for at the bottom of the chine.
    Gave me an idea of how to measure and notch the corner timbers. (did not cut bulkhead) It is really easy.
    Helped me visualize the angles at which some of the bulkheads will be notched.

  7. #171
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    Jul 2005
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    Howdy John,

    For a chine log or a cleat to be structural the glue surface on the ply needs to be a minimum of three times the ply thickness. There you go .. you know now how to build a 50 footer!

    As you can see the bevel as you plan it doesn't change the areas of glue contact with the ply at all - in any case you just need 3 x 6mm = 18mm glue surface on both the bottom and side ply.

    I don't think bevelling the top of the chine is truly useful in the way it is with bigger yachts. If you have a water catch part way up the side of the boat it will run backwards and forwards and wet everything from the loo paper through to the skipper's bunk.

    With the Goat this is unlikely to happen and the pool is only 1 3/4 inch above the main reservoir for internal water at any rate.

    My attitude to it is that it won't make much difference and it won't hurt anything at all. You have the skills to pull it off - so go for it - it is your boat.

    I haven't consciously ever used the chine log to step on so I don't think it will make much difference in this regard.

    MIK

  8. #172
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

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    Weather was great today and we got a lot done.

    Glued the timbers on all the bulkheads.

    Glued the side panels and bottom together.

    Kids tried to glue each others hair.

  9. #173
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portland, ME USA
    Posts
    837

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    It is so great to see the kids so involved.

  10. #174
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default butt joint error

    Lesson Learned:

    We checked and cleaned up the butt joints today. I have been warned about putting too much weight on the joints and squeezing all the glue out. Look at the picture in the the previous post. There is about 25 pounds of weight on each joint. Should of been enough, however when we tacked in the small brass nails to hold every thing in place we drove the nails too deep.

    The nails went thru both layers of plywood. When the nail hit the concrete floor it pushed the butt strap up just slightly. We got in a hurry today because the high temperature was speeding up the curing faster than we were used to. That created a 1-2 mm gap in a few places.

    Solution:
    Don't drive the nails thru both pieces of ply or have a piece of ply under the joint.
    Tap the butt joint ply with the hammer some, we just pushed it down with our hand.
    Tape the bottom side of the joint so the epoxy does not run thru the joint and spread onto the side and bottom pieces. It would have made it just a little neater with less clean up.

    It will be plenty strong and we will just fill the gaps later.

  11. #175
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    960

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    Quote Originally Posted by john goodman View Post
    Lesson Learned:

    We checked and cleaned up the butt joints today. I have been warned about putting too much weight on the joints and squeezing all the glue out. Look at the picture in the the previous post. There is about 25 pounds of weight on each joint. Should of been enough, however when we tacked in the small brass nails to hold every thing in place we drove the nails too deep.

    The nails went thru both layers of plywood. When the nail hit the concrete floor it pushed the butt strap up just slightly. We got in a hurry today because the high temperature was speeding up the curing faster than we were used to. That created a 1-2 mm gap in a few places.

    Solution:
    Don't drive the nails thru both pieces of ply or have a piece of ply under the joint.
    Tap the butt joint ply with the hammer some, we just pushed it down with our hand.
    Tape the bottom side of the joint so the epoxy does not run thru the joint and spread onto the side and bottom pieces. It would have made it just a little neater with less clean up.

    It will be plenty strong and we will just fill the gaps later.
    It happens. It sucks, but it happens. I did exactly the same thing with my bottom.

    Goat Island Skiff Amateur Style: Bottom surprise! and limber holes and gaps filled

  12. #176
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    If you are painting your boat nobody will ever know! The pins will stop the ply sliding even if they only penetrate the bottom by a mm.

    It's wonderfull that your kids are showing such an interest in the build and contributing so much to the project. They will carry these memories throughout their lives.

  13. #177
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fenwick, Michigan
    Age
    75
    Posts
    908

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    So, an unintended - and probably unrealized - benefit of assembling my sides on the horses was the elimination of that potential problem? Excellent.

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/g...0/index25.html

    Post #368 shows my set-up for gluing the side panels together.
    Building Gardens of Fenwick, a Welsford Parthfinder
    Gardens of Fenwick
    Karen Ann, a Storer GIS
    Goat Island Skiff - Sacramento

  14. #178
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
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    8,138

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodeneye View Post
    If you are painting your boat nobody will ever know! The pins will stop the ply sliding even if they only penetrate the bottom by a mm.

    It's wonderfull that your kids are showing such an interest in the build and contributing so much to the project. They will carry these memories throughout their lives.
    The epoxy in the hair can last almost as long.

    MIK

  15. #179
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hunter Valley NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    The epoxy in the hair can last almost as long.

    MIK
    Aaah, but I now know the trick to getting it our of the hair, courtesy of my hairdresser daughters. "Gee dad, everyone knows you just use a cotton-wool pad moistened with acetone!" Yes, it does work, and no, I didn't know that!

  16. #180
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    319

    Default good finish

    My daughter and I are putting the final coat of epoxy on the foils. We are not doing wet on wet. We add a coat, let it cure and then sand. We are working to get the foils very nice. This stems from racing a Tornado for many years where the blades needed to be perfect.

    Here are 2 pictures of the rudder finish. We will wet sand and vanish before we go sailing. The only sad part is we have had so much fun making the foils we forgot to drill the holes for the handles. Now we have to drill a couple of holes in our really pretty foils.

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