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  1. #1
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    Apr 2011
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    Post MSD Rowboat in Adelaide for WA

    So, as they say on the radio "long time listener first time caller". I think this makes me "long time reader, first time contributor"!

    I started building an MSD rowboat for my old man who lives down south in WA. He wanted a rowboat for all of the grandchildren to learn to row in and generally muck about it. Originally he wanted me to build a Chester Yawl. I dont have any problem with that boat, in fact I think it looks really nice. It is, however, a lot of work for a boat that is going to get a serious hammering. I suggested the MSD because;

    A: I like Michael's designs and have already started on the components (foils, mast etc) for a GIS and I like the look of both the GIS and MSD.

    B: The MSD, in my opinion was a more straightforward build, so win/win. Nice boat, easy to build!

    I started work on Saturday (5 days ago) with the precoating, and as things are a bit quite on the work front at the minute (I am a general builder/carpenter) I have had a good few days at it.

    Monday I marked out and cut all the panels. Although this isnt the order of work in the manual, I like to have all the components out in front of me so I can have more than one process on the go at a time. My only issue in all this was a that I went "offplan" and flipped the bow section on one of the sheets so that I could have a precoated side facing in.

    Once that was all done it was all about fairing the cut pieces down to the lines. Like Michael, I am a bit of a fan of the belt sander. I screwed the sides together in pairs and did them, then went about doing all of the other components.



    Then I had a day of income producing work so all that happened was the butt joints got done.

    Next day I went about cutting all of the timber for the bulkheads and chine logs. I have to give big props to Duck Flat for their pre-cut cuts of timber. After building a sabre last year where I cut down and milled all the paulownia for them, it was incredibly convenient to just pull out the bit of timber that was labelled with its use and cut it to length!

    I decided to do the glueing of the framing to the bulkheads one side at a time which was a bit easier than both sides at once. Im blessed with this build in that every surface will be getting painted (not clear coated or varnished) so screw holes are only something I need to fill, rather than attempt to avoid.

    Next day was chine logs, fit the framing timbers to the other sides of the bulkheads and then I started on the stem. I routed the edges of the chinelogs and sanded them up prior to glueing. In hindsight I probably would have been well of to pre-coat them before I glued them, but you live and you learn!





    One thing I noticed in the plans was that the drawing for the chinelogs said to overhang them 12mm but the words said 14mm so I went with the greater of the two. There was somewhere else where the notes didnt line up with the drawings, but I went with the larger of the two (the discrepencies only related to hanging the timbers over the edge of the ply).

    Anyway, so far, so good, easier build than the sabre, thats for sure! And good fun too. Nice knowing its going to be used by lots of people as well. Anyway i will try to keep this thread up to date with how I am going, and how I do it. Below is (hopefully) the link to the photos thus far.


    MSD Rowboat Build - a set on Flickr

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Mount George, SA
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    I thought I might add a bit about the chinelogs. Putting them on to be more specific. Although I have a helper, I worked out a way that works for me to do them on my own and I thought it might be helpful for others.

    So the process was this;


    1. With the chinelogs marked, cut, rounded etc, dry fit them putting screws in about 300mm apart(if your clear coating the outside of the hull then you might want to measure this out more accurately)
    2. Once this is done, starting from the middle undo the screws out to the ends, but leave the two end screws in.
    3. mix up the glue and then using a gladbag (or similar) squeeze out a bead of glue along the chinelog as far as you can.
    4. With the ends you hold the chinelog in one hand, use a drill with the other to undo the screw, put the drill down, put glue on the log then loosely screw that end back up. Repeat at the other end.
    5. Start putting screws in from the bow. Just watch that the chinelog stays as clear of the ply as possible as you work your way along. I didnt find this an issue and had a good amount of ooze from both side of the chinelog when it was all screwed up.
    6. Add clamps, lots of those spring clamps are great and you can buy a bucket of them from Bunnings for $10.


    Below are some pics from when I did it, sorry I didnt take more!







    Original pic links
    IMG_20120503_163948 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    IMG_20120503_174145 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    IMG_20120503_174134 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    (Edit by Michael ... I put in the images for you Jackson.)
    If you open each of the pages that appear in the links above it shows the main image on Flickr. You can't link directly to that one.

    Directly above each photo on Flickr you will see a menu that says "actions". Click on that and then select "View all sizes". It will open a new page.

    Click on the text that says "medium 640", the photo will load. Then right click the photo and select "copy image url" or "copy link location" or whatever your browser offers.

    Then you can put the cursor in your post where you want the image to go. Click the picture insert icon above the post window and a window comes up and you right click in the window and paste the image URL in there. It works easier than writing it like this

    Also it makes sense at the bottom of each post to add
    "http://www.flickr.com/photos/61172364@N05/sets/72157629955096029/with/7138389037/" at the bottom ... it is just a link to your folder on flickr ... they like a link back.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Brisbane
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    79

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    Good to see another of these being built. Just make sure you send it to WA before you try it out, you may decide to keep it yourself.
    Tom

  5. #4
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    Apr 2011
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    Mount George, SA
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    It will get launched here in SA, probably at Goolwa, then it will go home for all my neices and nephews to use, and my own kids when we go an visit. Did some more work today, mainly pottering, did all the beveling of the bulkheads and tidied up from the previous glueing work. Discovered a small mistake on my part, but will post about that tomorrow probably with photos of the offending item!

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Savannah GA USA
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    Instead of pictures all I see are small boxes with question marks (?) in them. Am I on the wrong side of the equator?

    There's not much to worry re: the small discrepancy comparing drawings to written instructions. When I built my Goat I epoxied the chine logs in place by eyeball--never put a ruler on the offset from the ply edge MIK called for.
    The "Cosmos Mariner,"My Goat Island Skiff
    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w168/MiddleAgesMan/

    Starting the Simmons Sea Skiff 18
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

  7. #6
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    Aug 2010
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
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    It's great to see another MSD Rowboat coming together. She's a beaut for sure. Unfortunately, family has an aluminum row/outboard that we're sentimentally attached to and we will be adding a CLC canoe and my GIS to the fleet this summer. If not, I would certainly consider building an MSD-R myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleAgesMan View Post
    When I built my Goat I epoxied the chine logs in place by eyeball--never put a ruler on the offset from the ply edge MIK called for.
    How in the world did you not sink?!? I usually use a magnifying glass to determine the 1/10 mm measurements prevalent in the plans! If I did it your way, I might be finished by now!


    (j/k! I would be finished by now if I would get off the computer and get back to building... )
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  8. #7
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    'Delaide, Australia
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    65
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    8,138

  9. #8
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    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mount George, SA
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    So today was a big day, put the thing together (dry fit) then glued it all, which was fun, then re-did a clients site plan in record time so I could post about how it all went.

    Before that though, I noticed a mistake, which I made an executive decision to not worry about, if you look at this picture of the drawings;

    IMG_20120505_155016 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    You will notice that the bottom cleat sits inside the side cleats, then you look at what I did;

    IMG_20120505_155031 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Hopefully its not a major, I dont think it is.

    So onto the more major component of the day, assembly.

    I started by wiring the bow together, I got this idea from somewhere on here and decided it works for me as it then allowed me to set up everything else and come back to the stem.

    IMG_20120506_100956 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Actually it looks really fast in that photo, to bad its blurry.

    The next bit I put in the spreaders and temporarily clamped a bit of timber onto the table and one side of the boat as I was on my own and it was a bit difficult getting the sides to stay upright. I used some blocks clamped down to the bench and the almighty wedge to get BHD #1 lined up and then screwed into place.

    IMG_20120506_104958 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    IMG_20120506_105004 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Sorry about the blurry photos they didnt look blurry when i took them on my phone, but now they definitely do!

    BHD #2 and #3 went in really easily, keep in mind that all of this is just fitting them getting screws in to use to locate them later on. My big disappointment was i screwed up the matching of the bevels in the notches for the chinelog, I have since worked out where I went wrong, which will hold me in good stead when I get going on the GIS.

    next up was BHD #4;

    IMG_20120506_111647 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    I used a cambuckle strap to help pull things together here, it was really handy because I would support the boat and encourage to bend and close up the way I wanted with one hand/arm while I pulled the strap with the other. Notice the mistake?? Luckily I did before I glued;

    IMG_20120506_114113 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Somehow or another I had put BHD #4 lines in the wrong spot, I think I picked up two lines that were on the ply for some other reason and marked them early on in the piece. Anyway, a bit of head scratching and some measuring and marking from the plans and I was back in action!

    Then I discovered the next oversight! I had skipped all these pesky words on the bottom of the page that talked about putting the chine logs on! I hadnt marked the gunwale line, something I discovered when i thought I would read ahead to work out where the gunwale went exactly so I could put the screws through it and thus have it all "pre-screwed" for when I came back to glue up. Luckily, the plans are laid out in such a way that I didnt have to pull everything apart just to make the lines for the gunwales. I was able to work along and put the marks in the right spot, then I started from the middle putting the gunwale on and bending it to line up with the marks. Then I traced the underside of the gunwale so I now have a full line along there.......as per the instructions!

    IMG_20120506_122434 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Next was back to the stem. I pulled the wires out and discovered a fair amount of spring at the top, so I used a clamp across the top which was prevented from sliding forward by some quickgrips to hold the bow together

    IMG_20120506_133629 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Then at the bottom I got a bit of scrap LOSP and cut two notches and jammed that on from the bottom to hold the bottom in place.

    IMG_20120506_133624 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Then I slid the stem in, pulled it out and altered is, slid it in again and put screws in to hold it in place.

    So with all that done I pondered the issues I had when trying to push the bulkheads down into place. I wasnt keen for the to happen with glue on them. So my plan was to clamp some timber onto the bench and the hull to hold the sides exactly in the position they were in right now;

    IMG_20120506_134918 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    IMG_20120506_134928 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    I had two on each side. They were an absolute god send!! I was able to just pull the screws out lift each bulkhead out, goo it up, slide it in, screw it on, do my coving and cleanup and move onto the next one.

    Once I had glued everything and coved and tidied up i removed those temporary supports so that the hull was free to be flexed around to get any twist out, and there was a light one which I reckon I corrected;

    IMG_20120506_171005 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Then after 3.5 hours of glueing, it was done!!

    IMG_20120506_170937 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Then my old man came home from sailing all arvo on my Sabre and was most impressed, so that was nice.

    It is definitely a lot bigger in the flesh than in any photo I see of it. My issue now is about coating the sides of the bulkheads that arent coated and the timber pieces. I am thinking I will do it post the bottom going on, but we will see.

  10. #9
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    Apr 2011
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    Mount George, SA
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    Thanks for the help with the pics MIK, will do that when there is next some images to show.

    Today is an unscheduled day off. As I only glued the boat together yesterday I am reluctant to move it, but after reading the destructions carefully I have worked out that I can go on with the seat cleats and also do the shaping for the skeg. I already have the gunwales clamped and screwed on and the shape of the bottom isnt going to change and the hull is setup with no twist, so shouldnt be an issue. Then once the hull is on I can put the supports down to the hull and do the hull related stuff then carry on as per the instructions!

    So far the only snag I have hit is the 365mm measurement down from the bow for the front seat. It looks to me like it will result in the front seat angling forward, and thus collecting water. Is it just an optical illusion? Maybe someone can chime in and let me know to trust to the destructions?

    So hopefully by the end of the day, seat cleats in and skeg laminated up!

    Test of the instructions from MIK - yes they are easier in practice....provided I got it right!


  11. #10
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson.Digney View Post
    So far the only snag I have hit is the 365mm measurement down from the bow for the front seat. It looks to me like it will result in the front seat angling forward, and thus collecting water. Is it just an optical illusion? Maybe someone can chime in and let me know to trust to the destructions?
    Caveat: not only have I NOT built an MSD Rower, I haven't finished my GIS either. But...

    I had the same question about the GIS. It actually prompted me to adjust how I had the hull supported (held up at the three corners) so that it is "level". Once I did that, I convinced myself that the downward angle is an optical illusion.
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  12. #11
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    So yesterday I got the rear and middle seat cleats on, but couldnt commit to the bow ones. Im still not confident in the angle, no offence to MIK, I love the detail of the plans, but it just doesnt look right and I would hate to have to have another go.

    Does this look right in these photos?




    I was also a bit confused by one line in the instructions which reads "The seat runs from the back of the stem across the top of Bhd #2 and terminates on Bhd #3." I thought the seat went from the stem, to BDH #1, then another seat from BHD #2 to BHD #3? That what I see in the photos of other boats, so I'm going with that!

    I also laminated the timber for the skeg.

    Today was much more exciting! I flipped the old girl over and planed down the chinelogs! Now I feel like I am making progress again. I cant emphasize enough how handy this building table is. If you can find the funds, or spend enough time looking in your local "trader" type paper for free or cheap old timber it is absolutely worth the effort to have one of these to work on. Even if, at the end of it, you whack a table top on it and make it the new dining table its still worth it!

    The only issue I came across today was that it would have been handy if i made it with height adjustable legs. The boat is now a bit hard to work on as its quite high, but I am getting by thanks to some milk crates.

    Before;

    After;

    MSD Rowboat Build - a set on Flickr

  13. #12
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    Well, it seems clear to me that the MSD design--and therefore the instructions--are a direct spin-off, or evolution of the GIS. The GIS instructions contain the exact same "typo" regarding BHD 2 & 3, although on the GIS it should read BHD 1 & 2. And the measurement down the stem for the support is the same too.

    Because MIK designs these hulls with CAD software, I have been quite confident in how the lines match up. If your BHD 1 remained true to the line on the hull side (we know that parts like to shift in the goo overnight...), adjust the hull so that BHD 1 is plumb. I think you'll find that the 365mm mark on the stem is level with BHD 1. However, MIK has always been pretty tolerant of builders who deviate or wander from his plans, as long as they know why they do so and what the effects will be. That statement applies to major details like the GIS's two bottom runners/skids (no skeg on a GIS) or creating a third buoyancy tank amidships, or the MSD-R with the much fancier seat supports. Where he puts his foot down is on matters like adding side seats that he ruled out in the design, or other "improvements" that are not consistent with his design brief.

    I offer that opinion as rationale for the following advice: if you're not comfortable with where the mark sits, you could probably raise it up some and not have any worries or complaints. As long as you can define a smooth line from the two bulkheads to the stem that the tank top can conform to, I think you are in no danger of upsetting the design or the designer.
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  14. #13
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    Yeah I think your right. I dont want to offend MIK cause the plans are really good, I should email him and see how conducive he is to having some free editing help with the documentation. I know when I am writing big docs I get to the end of them and have that "i just wrote it all, and now I cant bring myself to re-read and change any of it!" feeling.

    Im sure his measurement is right, just have to convince myself of that, my plan is to run a batten forward from BHD #3, over BHD #2 and #1 and see where the end of it lies, that should match, roughly, the curve of the bottom and then I can work down from that for a waterline based on some judicious scaling from the drawings in the building instructions to confirm, most likely, that the height in the instructions is correct!

    I do a lot of design work in CAD, house additions and extensions so I am quite trusting of the power of a CAD program.

    Anyway less typing more seeing if im right, which I know realise will have to wait until I have glued the bottom on, so thats todays job!

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson.Digney View Post
    Anyway less typing more seeing if im right, which I know realise will have to wait until I have glued the bottom on, so thats todays job!
    Good point... I have some gluing to do myself! Damn this internet: I'm conversing with someone on the other side of the globe instead of building the boat in my garage!
    Dave
    StorerBoat Builder, Sailor, Enthusiast
    Dave's GIS Chronicles | Dave's Lugs'l Chronicles | Dave's StorerBoat Forum Thread

  16. #15
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    Major works today!

    Put the bottom on, basically finished!!

    I found that the bottom only just fitted in terms of the overhang around the side, I actually cut 15mm outside the marked line (because my fairing batten was 15mm thick so I marked both sides). I ended up having to move the bottom forward a bit to get it to overhang the sides an adequate amount. I also ended up moving the point at the bow to the right a bit.....which made me wonder if the boat was scewed somehow but after much measuring and even pulling out my various laser lines.


    So just before that end gets its goo. I didnt get any photos but I ended up with two of the bulkhead bottoms sitting lower than the chinelogs after they were beveled (that is, lower when the hull is upside down). I am sure this isnt an original idea because I must have read it somewhere, but I used stainless C/S head screws drilled adjacent to the holes I had pre-screwed to hold the bottom down in order to level up the bottom to a straight line once the screws to hold the bottom on where in.

    Glueing up was pretty straight forward as you see from the photo above. Before I flipped the hull upright I got under and scraped the ooze off. This meant that I avoided smearing the ooze on either the chinelog or the bottom.

    Once that was done i got some help and flipped the boat over then went through and put a bead of glue down, ran around with the coving tool and then cleaned up.



    I also went for filling the gap between the buttstrap and the chinelog as it was too hard to get in there and cove it.


    The keen observer may have noticed a lack of limber holes in the center seat. There is a good reason for this. After much discussion my old man and I decided that we weren't worried about the water freely moving from one end to the other........hopefully this decision doesnt come round to bite us in the you know what.

    I am still terribly paralised about this front seat, especially when the drawing in the plans looks like this;



    It looks a lot higher in the bow than in reality (see the image from my other post on this issue. Tomorrow, before I flip the hull back and start on the skeg I may have a crack at the batten idea I came up with.

    All in all though, happy with progress and what an awesome looking boat!! Im getting quite excited about the day it hits the water and I can get back to my GIS foils and then the GIS mast, yard and boom, then maybe, just maybe the actual GIS, although somewhere in there i have to rebuild the back of our house and re-locate my shed!

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