Steinert Piccolo mini lathe from Germany

[Phaded]

Hello,

I am a new member and this is my first post after lurking this forum for a while to gather information. I am in the market for my first lathe and would like to see if anyone has an opinion on the Steinert Piccolo mini lathe, it is made in Germany and it has 350mm between centers which is about 13.78 inches.

The Steinert lathes are made by a parent company which is well known in Germany called Wema WEMA Werkzeug- und Maschinenbau GmbH - Welcome to Wema
The Steinert Lathe company does not have an English website but I used Google to translate to give a rough idea of features and there I will list another site with many pictures.
Here is the Base model link & picture
Link for info >>>Google Translate

Here is an upgraded model, I can not figure out why is cost so much more
Link for info>>>Google Translate

Here is another version with sliding headstock and can rotate with extra charge
Link for info>>>Google Translate

Here is another site with more info and lots of pictures >>>Google Translate
Here is a little background on me and reason for my purchase. I am not experienced in wood turning, hence turning to you more experienced members of this board. I have a project I am working on that used exotic hardwood parts in a dowel shape with rounded corners, measurements with be roughly 3-4" diameter and 6-7" long.

This will be its main purpose but I have a feeling I will get bit by the woodturning bug and want to do many more projects with it so another question to you is, do you think this lathe will be fine for me or do you think it would be better to get a larger lathe like the Oneway 1224 or another recommendation?
(this would mean I would have to wait and save up more money though)

[artme]

G'day Phaded and welcome to the forum!

There are may tings to consider when buying a lathe.

*Remember that you can turn small items on a big lathe, but you can't turn big items on a small lathe.

*Quality tools are impotant, as is sharpening equipment. Budget for them.

* What sort of budget do you have? A good second hand lathe may be a better buy than a new one. Always get the best lathe you can for the money you want to spend.

*Look at convenience features such as electronic variable speed if you have the money
.
* When you examine a lathe make sure the centres line up.

There are woodturners near you. I suggest you google for organizations in your are. They can help you out.

Why would you buy a german lathe when there are good American machines to be bought? For instance Delta makes a very good small lathe.

Hope tis helps. Have fun.

[Phaded]

Thanks for the welcome

*Quality tools are impotant, as is sharpening equipment. Budget for them.

I have a grinder and I plan on purchasing a sharpening jig in the near future. I will set aside a hundred or two for tools and then buy them as I go,

* What sort of budget do you have? A good second hand lathe may be a better buy than a new one. Always get the best lathe you can for the money you want to spend.

Budget is around $1500 give or take. I have kept an eye out for a used lathe of decent quality but the used lathes I have seen lately are not that much cheaper than a new one but they are many years old and in poor condition. Infact there is a Oneway 1224 on Ebay right now that looks to have had some hard miles on her, the asking price is $1700 and I could get a new one for $2400.

There are woodturners near you. I suggest you google for organizations in your are. They can help you out.

I have been to local clubs and to a couple classes, this is what influenced my choice to take on this challenge. When I purchase my lathe I will join more classes for sure.

Why would you buy a german lathe when there are good American machines to be bought? For instance Delta makes a very good small lathe.

Unfortunately Delta lathes are made somewhere in Asia now, I wish it were not the case. The reason I am thinking about a German lathe is that the quality looks top notch and the price is not bad, it is even a little cheaper than the Vicmarc VL100.
I have some Festool & Metabo tools which are made in Germany and they are of excellent quality just like most German Cars, built like a tank.

[artme]

Perhaps i am Biased, being Australian, but the general opinion is that Vicmarc is top of the class. Beautifully manufactured here in Australia and superbly accurate.

[Phaded]

No I couldn't agree more, Vicmarc is a good quality lathe, one if the instructors I met has the big VL300 and it was smooth as butter.

I was considering the Vicmarc VL100 but the lathe is $2,000, an amount I find too much for a lathe that was less than half that amount just a few years ago according to some ads that I found, one even $524 on sale from an original $750. I could understand if the machine was redesigned but it has been in very similar form for about 15 years. I also heard they were not making the cast iron parts in Australia anymore and moved the casting to Thailand.

I am not doubting the quality of Vicmarc and I can understand price increases but I just can not justify paying double the amount I would have payed as little as three years ago. It is the same with anything, I don't think anyone here would buy a car that has doubled price in a few years without a redesign, it just wouldn't seem a value.

Today I was doing some thinking about what you said artme, you basically told me that you can not have too big a lathe. So with that in mind I might try to save up for a larger lathe perhaps the Oneway 1224 or something of similar quality & size. I would really like to buy a top brand first rather than a cheap one and be unsatisfied, I have always had good luck when I buy what I really want the first time around.

[artme]

Today I was doing some thinking about what you said artme, you basically told me that you can not have too big a lathe. So with that in mind I might try to save up for a larger lathe perhaps the Oneway 1224 or something of similar quality & size. I would really like to buy a top brand first rather than a cheap one and be unsatisfied, I have always had good luck when I buy what I really want the first time around.

[Texian]

We live in an inflationary economy. Everything costs more than it did three years ago, even if it is exactly the same product.

The Delta 46-460 or especially the Jet 1.5 hp. 1642 EVS would probably do any work you require, and do it within your budget. However these would not be included among the "highest quality" (and highest dollar) tools like OneWay, Serious, Stubby, and Vicmarc that you seem to desire. Just a matter of priorities.

[Phaded]

We live in an inflationary economy. Everything costs more than it did three years ago, even if it is exactly the same product.

The Delta 46-460 or especially the Jet 1.5 hp. 1642 EVS would probably do any work you require, and do it within your budget. However these would not be included among the "highest quality" (and highest dollar) tools like OneWay, Serious, Stubby, and Vicmarc that you seem to desire. Just a matter of priorities.

I have used a Jet mini lathe and examined a Delta mini, neither have that wow factor that I am looking for, I know they will work just as good and a top tier brand will not make me a better wood turner but when I make a costly tool purchase I like to pick something I am going to be satisfied with for as long as possible, it helps me sleep better at night without thinking I should have purchased a different model. Plus I try not to make major purchases from China, not until they practice fair trade and improve labor laws.

For the price it seems like it still could be a good investment to purchase a mini lathe when you consider most turners still keep and use their mini lathes when they upgrade, everyone I know say they prefer using a small lathe for the smaller projects rather than making a pen on a full size lathe. With the price of large pieces of wood and limit of large functional art projects I would think a small lathe would come in handy with making pens, peppermills, handles, small boxes, etc. The most popular thing people seem to turn with a large lathe are bowl and vases which are great but unless you have access to huge logs every day or you are working as a professional bowl turner I imagine most will turn to a small lathe for everyday projects. Don't get me wrong I do want a large lathe but it would seem purchasing a lathe this size would allow me to save for the large lathe I really want, like an Omega Stubby 750.

For some reason that little German lathe really just calls my name, especially with the slide and rotate headstock it probably turns as good as it looks, the company who makes them are well known in German speaking countries and most will agree the Germans are famous for their engineering. Check out a video on YouTube of their largest lathe. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u7qAlFR-ag&feature=related]YouTube - Drechseln mit der steinert® maximo - Teil 2[/ame]

[cultana]

Perhaps i am Biased, being Australian, but the general opinion is that Vicmarc is top of the class. Beautifully manufactured here in Australia and superbly accurate.

Typical, you left out that bit about serious addiction again.
Suck the poor guy in till it is too late for him to escape the curse of wood turning. Shame!!

[Allen Neighbors]

Welcome Phaded, to the forum of the now and the future...
Considering the pricing discrepancies of the Vicmarc VL 100, could it be the difference between the prices of the VL 100 Bench model, and the VL100 VS model?

I do agree with German construction being right on, having lived there for five years, but you just can't beat a Vicmarc or Oneway... 'course, I'm biased...

[Phaded]

The price difference is a result in the fluctuation of the US & AU dollars, from what I have read that is the reason dealers stopped importing them. I looked it up on some currency exchange sites and apparently in 2003 the Australian dollar was worth almost half of a US dollar back then.

The Vicmarc VL100 shares very similar specs when compared to the Steinert Piccolo so if the quality is equal it would be nice to have something different then everyone else, and I like the way the German mini lathes looks. I was the first one of my buddies to buy Festool and that worked out pretty well. The company Wema/Steinert is no slouch in Europe, infact they are the most capable & well built lathes in Germany from information I read and was able to translate from foreign forums.

I am glad you mentioned the Oneway, I know they are great lathes but I just can't decide whether or not I want a welded steel constructed lathe, I like features and design, including the touches of brass which make it stand out from the rest. I just can't decide if the steel construction is a plus or a minus. It is hard making a decision, I wish I could just buy 1 of each.

[Thugpipe]

Phaded,

I just found this thread and I was curious if you ever got the piccolo, I had been looking at this same lathe a number of years ago and I went with the vicmarc VL100 instead because at the time it was much cheaper and I could get it form craft supplies. had you found an importer for the piccolo or were you going to have it shipped from germany? just curious sorry for my tardiness .

peter

[Gil Jones]

Hey Phaded, welcome.
Seeing as you asked, would recommend a Powermatic 3520B. I have one, and it is a fine machine. It is a bit more than your budget, but unless you are in a great hurry (never a great idea) a bit of saving could cure that.
Vicmarc, Robust, and Oneway are fine lathes too, though a bit more money.
You might consider joining a local turning club, and possibly you could "test drive" some or all of the lathes that interest you, and make a more informed decision.
Good luck,
Gil

[Manuka Jock]

Unfortunately Delta lathes are made somewhere in Asia now, I wish it were not the case.

Made in Asia does not necessarily mean crap manufacture.
Also , many tools and machines are manufactured in Asia , but carry tags from elsewhere in the world .

[Phaded]

Sorry for dredging up this old thread, I have been away but wanted to answer these questions and also tell this board and possibly manufacturers reading that the Wood Lathe market is really an overpriced nightmare.

These companies are charging so much for such simple machines, if anyone has any engineering experience they will be laughing right along with me.

Do Wood Lathe Companies realize that they are charging the as much or even more than what heavy equipment costs, like some CNC lathes and mills for metals. If you look at the metal lathe market you will see some pretty complicated machinery and then you look at Oneway charging the same amount for their welded tube and you can't help but scratch your head.

You can even get a small Hyundai or Nissan Versa for less than a fully loaded Robust Lathe. Do the manufacturers really think their simple wood lathes should be priced as much as a car? And Judging by Robust's pricelist, I think he does think he is selling a car, each lathe has a long list of options as if your not paying enough already, what happened to just making a good product, why make everything an option.

I have been looking at some of the lathe models out there and here are some comments and my opinions based on my journey, it is a bit of a RANT so bear with me guys.

I looked into those lathes (Vicmarc, Robust, and Oneway) and for the price I found them all lacking for the price and here is why:

Vicmarc seem like a solid lathe but the design is also ancient and for the price of the larger models I would expect more features. Now if I was a dedicated bowl turner and wanted a simple but solid design then the Vl300 might be a good choice. Even more fitting would be for schools where they might need simple bulletproof lathes with few moving parts to damage by amateurs which can be abusive to tools.

Oneway & Robust to me seem cheap, nobody likes fabricated lathes but when someone slaps a $7,000 price tag on them and suddenly they are desirable. No offense to anyone who owns one but to me they seem like they were made in some garage with welded sheet metal and metal tubing. call me a cast iron guy or whatever but if I am paying the kind of money for a lathe, then you can bet that I want to be just as happy looking at it as I would be turning on it. Plus the big, industrial lathes seem to be Cast Iron, so there must be something to it.

Another thing I notice about the fabrication is to me each one of those welds screams possible point of failure and possible human error by the accuracy of the welder (truthfully from the pictures the welds are cosmetically mediocre) They could at least file the welds smooth if they are not going to have good bead.

Oneway doesn't even have a sliding or rotating headstock and another thing that bothers me about Robust is the Cost/Price, how to they get off charging the same amount as Oneway right out of the gate with no reputation?
One more thing about the Robust is all of the positive selling points they want to charge extra for. The Tailstock Tilt_Away, Outboard Turning, and the 3hp motor, and maybe even the Tool Caddy, these things could easily be included in a $7,000 wood lathe.

Omega Stubby Lathes I have not seen in person but from what I have seen in America so far, they look to be one of the most innovative lathes out there with their unique bed design, they seem to think outside the box by offering a different design and I like the fact that they seem to include a couple extras that most companies would charge you for, like an Extra Banjo and Side Extension, plus I like that they are not outsourced and appear to be of great quality.

Phaded,

I just found this thread and I was curious if you ever got the piccolo, I had been looking at this same lathe a number of years ago and I went with the vicmarc VL100 instead because at the time it was much cheaper and I could get it form craft supplies. had you found an importer for the piccolo or were you going to have it shipped from germany? just curious sorry for my tardiness .

peter

I looked into the Steinert Piccolo and they are more than happy to ship to the USA or any other country for that matter but I changed my mind because of pricing, they seem to charge extra for everything.

Example is they charge:
400 Euros for a Sliding Headstock
650 Euro just for Variable Speed PLUS 200 Euro more for a Magnet Control Box
80 Euro for upgraded Motor Power
350 Euro for an Extra 30mm in Spindle Height
35 Euro for Measurement Tailstock Sleeve.
145 Euro for Indexing

This adds up to 1,860 Euros extra for most of which I believe should come standard on a 1,200 Euro MINI LATHE. I could just buy the basic lathe and still might in the future but at this time I think I will look towards a bigger lathe for the money. I still really do like the all of the accessories and options they have, pretty innovative for this size lathe but it comes at a price.

Made in Asia does not necessarily mean crap manufacture.
Also , many tools and machines are manufactured in Asia , but carry tags from elsewhere in the world .

Of course Asian products can be built well, I just try when ever possible not to reward companies that outsource there work, especially larger purchases. I don't want to get into politics, but I hate that companies have to outsource their manufacturing because they don't know how to run a successful business and keep jobs in their home country.

However, if I was a professional turner and needed the most lathe I could get for lets say around $3,500, then at that point it would be obvious to look at something like a Powermatic which offers some of the best features for the price.