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  1. #16
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    Use them!!

    You clearly haven't really caught the bug ;-} This is a world of perfect forms, or at least of striving towards them.

    ....

    I still don't have a good reference for flat. Baulk at $150 or so for a Williams straight edge. Offer still open to share in a buy of Mcjing 150mm parallel plates. 1 thou in 1 foot acc to an informed poster elsewhere who'd I'd happily thank if I could remember who it was.

    ...

    My thing is wood turning; I actually make things on the lathe. Here, I just take a perverse pleasure in rehabbing flatware tools. Scraping plane soles is next but one on the agenda, with kind thanks to Michael for all his sage advice.
    Cheers, Ern

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  3. #17
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    Aug 2005
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    Gladstone, QLD
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    Ern

    Thank you for the info

    Cheers

  4. #18
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    Apr 2010
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    Melbourne
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    Nice to read that there are still some flat-backers on the forum. There appears to be a lot of late offering excuses for not spending a few minutes gaining a flat surface, and hence a straight edge to sharpen against. As with food, if it needs a fancy name,advertising, or isn't something your cabinet making grandparent would recognise, it's probably best avoided!

  5. #19
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    Jan 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    Clinton, good questions.

    Diamond paste: IIRC the coarsest I've seen around is about 50 micron.
    Correction sorry, have some 90 micron sitting in the shed , sourced from ebay US.

    ....

    There are tips throughout on flattening waterstones.

    Messy business! Can see why Derek has a kitchen sink in his shed.

    A diamond plate clearly is easy but exxy.

    Have read about these options:
    * using the concrete drive
    * having 3 and cycling flattening between them two at a time against each other
    * Scary Sharp
    * using the sanding mesh designed for flattening plasterboard joins
    Cheers, Ern

  6. #20
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    Aug 2004
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    Just use a coarse diamond stone myself. I'll give the stone a couple of wipes with it at the beginning of a sharpening session just to work up a bit of slurry. Then a few wipes between items just to ensure flat. At the end of the session a few wipes to make it flat for next time. I only ensure flat side to side since I can't see a critical reason for flatness end to end. Obviously if I saw a noticeable concave I'd flatten that out. Flatten little and often, if you've go to take a lot off, doesn't that say something of the the state of the stone during the last sharpen?

    Cheers
    Michael

  7. #21
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    Query end to end indifference in lapping say a 2" plane blade ... ? On an 8" stone.

    What am I missing?
    Cheers, Ern

  8. #22
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    tell me what you're thinking...

    The iron makes contact with the stone only for say max 2mm in the end-end axis, less with a newer bevel. Over that small length any small concave in the stone is still going to approach flat in practical terms don't you think?

    Cheers
    Michael

  9. #23
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    Query end to end indifference in lapping say a 2" plane blade ... ? On an 8" stone.

    What am I missing?
    Quote Originally Posted by mic-d View Post
    tell me what you're thinking...

    The iron makes contact with the stone only for say max 2mm in the end-end axis, less with a newer bevel. Over that small length any small concave in the stone is still going to approach flat in practical terms don't you think?

    Cheers
    Michael
    Michael
    are you assuming that the blade is orientated across the stone?

    when I free hand a bevel, the blade is orientated along the stone, so with a 2" blade on an 8" stone, the edge travels about 7" along the stone -- and concavity aong the stone will be trnsferred to the edge
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  10. #24
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    Ahh, there you go, didn't consider hand lapping. I use only a jig so it's only ever oriented across the stone...

    Cheers
    Michael

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    Apologies for mis-reporting you Michael.

    Yes, the risk you identify sounds perfectly plausible.

    To be fair to V. they recommend you put a mylar sheet on the glass but I understand this to be aimed at holding the loose grit; just my memory though, increasingly fallible.
    My two cents- The sheet of mylar would hold the grit so the glass should not really be worn and so no tgo off flat. Paradoxically, the mylar won't really be worn by the grit either. The grit does the sharpening, not the glass or the mylar.

    Stuck my nose in here cos I've got 6 socket chisels that I just put handles on, which now need their sharp ends attended to.
    anne-maria.
    T
    ea Lady

    (White with none)
    Follow my little workshop/gallery on facebook. things of clay and wood.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mic-d View Post
    Ahh, there you go, didn't consider hand lapping. I use only a jig so it's only ever oriented across the stone...Cheers
    Michael
    Err, by lapping I mean flattening the blade back

    TL, yes. And if the Mylar holds the grit then we're back to the same prob of uneven abrasion rates that Scary Sharp has.
    Cheers, Ern

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    Err, by lapping I mean flattening the blade back

    TL, yes. And if the Mylar holds the grit then we're back to the same prob of uneven abrasion rates that Scary Sharp has.
    Ahh, of course you did, I threw the points in front of my thought train and went off somewhere else. Give me a slap
    Cheers
    Michael

  14. #28
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    using the sanding mesh designed for flattening plasterboard joins
    thats what I use, on a flat surface and with a pull stroke of course.

    having 3 and cycling flattening between them two at a time against each other
    Does not work, like hippies, electricity and bludgers, the 'path of least resistance' is followed, not the 'path of most flatness'.

    using the concrete drive
    you have a flat concrete drive??

    What were we talking about again??
    Cheers,
    Clinton

    "Use your third eye" - Watson

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/clinton_findlay/

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tea lady View Post
    Stuck my nose in here cos I've got 6 socket chisels that I just put handles on, which now need their sharp ends attended to.
    We'll hear from you next some time next year?

    Clinton:
    you have a flat concrete drive??

    What were we talking about again??
    We were talking about how many tool sharpeners it takes to dance on the head of a pin
    Cheers, Ern

  16. #30
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    Jun 2005
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    Sydney
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    I remember now Ern,
    "Lapping chisel and plane blade backs... a few tips"

    I remember going to a Toowoomba Forum meet and greet, and MatthewA (Toolin Around) ?? showed how he polishes the back of chisels with the side of a solid timber wheel and polishing compound on a variable speed wheel. Good for any tool that you don't need a dead flat back on.... fast fast fast.

    I guess our problem is that we (unrealistically?) put expectations onto flatness rates that should really be in the realm of machines.

    Chisels only need to be realitively flat on the back... a small strip of flatness to meet with the bevel to give a nice sharp edge. The rest of the back should be 'near enough'... then you bang it into the mortice with a ball pein hammer.
    I can't see the point to 'extreme accurate' flatness over the entire back... not from a working in wood useability or 'time benefit' vs 'results' perspective.

    Same for plane blades - 'near enough on the back', polished on the back near the edge', then the bevel polished.

    But thats not what you are doing are you?

    You have entered 'shed time', and will only come out when you have reached mythical standards of perfection in relation to polished and flat 'backs'.
    And along the way you'll work it out, find the best way to do it... and I'll steal that result and use it for my own dodgy ends.

    The comment about 'flat at this grade is not flat at that grade'... are you going beyond the flatness of the stones? e.g. are you looking for results greater than the materials you are using allow?

    I think of diamond stones as the way to remove manufacturing marks or damage.... then uning them to lay the foundation for a quick polish through a few finer grades.
    Cheers,
    Clinton

    "Use your third eye" - Watson

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/clinton_findlay/

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