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Thread: Tractor Carrier

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Tractor Carrier

    Hi everyone
    I’ve been reading threads about trailer builds for about 2 years. I’m now gearing up to build a tandem trailer.

    I need a multi-purpose trailer to transport a grey Fergie tractor as well as for general transport needs, such as building and landscaping materials. The critical size is the tractor and so the inside deck measurement must be 3.00 m long x 1.66 m wide. The tractor weighs about 1,200 kg, so to keep the trailer less than 1,990 kg GTM, the trailer must be no more than 790 kg.

    I want the trailer to be strong and durable, so I am proposing the following specs.:

    Towbar 100x75x5 RHS extending 1.35 m in front of deck
    Perimeter members 75x50x3 or 100x50x3 RHS DuraGal
    Cross-members 75x50x2.5 RHS DuraGal @ 600 spacing
    Side and front trusses 50x25x2.5 RHS DuraGal, 275mm high and well braced with 25x25x2.5
    Wheel trays: 3mm checker plate 350 wide with 25mm turn-ups each side
    Axles solid 45mm sq with provision for electric brakes on both with 10” electric on front axle
    Slimline inner & outer Falcon bearings
    Suspension: rocker or slipper springs with 1,200 kg capacity, 8-leaf x 45mm
    Centre of axle-set 125mm minimum behind centre of deck – may need to be more
    Hubs: 6-stud 139.7mm PCD
    Wheels 14” x 5½” steel Rodeo 185R14LT 20kg each
    LED lights

    For more general use, removable Formply floor and side panels will be fitted.

    Plan:

    Elevations:

    I’m thinking of storing the 450 mm wide ramps in the 920 mm space between the checker plate wheel trays. The ramps would be removed when trailer is carrying general goods.

    The current tow vehicle has tow tongue height of 350mm. So to lower the deck and towbar I plan to fix the coupling below the towbar. I think this will be easier, simpler, stronger, cheaper than drop axles.

    I’d be interested to receive any comments on the above and any advice about locating the centre of the axle-set and whether slipper or rocker-roller springs would be best.

    Thanks in advance

    Styx
    Last edited by Styx; 12th May 2012 at 06:06 PM. Reason: trying to upload drawings

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Default

    im in the middle of building a car tralier you can find it in the threads i went with the 4 inch drop axles and making the trailer tilt most of my frame is 75 x 50 x 3mm exept the draw bar thats 75 x50 x 4mm and im using 2 alloy runners for the car to sit on mine is 15.ft 6 inches by 6 ft 6 inches wide tray size.

    i did a lot of reading on axle placement and the most common formula seemed to be find the middle of your trailer and then move the centre line of your axles one inch back for every ft your tray is long so in my case the centreline is 15 and a half inches back from the middle of the trailer .

    hope that helps you and dont forget lots of pictures of your build as you go along

    cheers dean.

    ps im sure one of the more experinced guys around here will answer some of your questions ive found them to be really friendly in here.

  4. #3
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    Thanks Dean
    I'm a little confused as I read somewhere to place the axle centre half an inch back per foot of length, while you are using one inch per foot.
    Seems it is a simple formula designed for a uniform loaded trailer, so the centre of load is back, helping tracking and reducing loads on the tow vehicle.
    My problem is I don't know exactly where the centre of load of the tractor is located.

    Anyway, I can decide the axle placement later. Task is to get the steel soon and a cut-off saw. I've just bought a CIG Transmig 175i welder. Plan to gas mig weld the chassis in the workshop.

    Why did you choose alloy wheel runners, as these will be difficult to fix to the steel chassis?

    Yes, I will post pictures of progress. I'm also gearing up to build a 6m x 4m steel shed for the tractor. The shed will be in a rural location without mains electricity supply, so any welding and heavy drilling has to be off-site.

    Styx

  5. #4
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    hi there

    i got my info on axle placment from here as well as a couple of other places
    Master Plans Trailer Plans Store - trailer plans, trailer part, trailer hitch part, boat trailer part, Tandem Axle Trailers, utility trailer part, brake controllers, horse trailer part, Gooseneck Trailers, snowmobile trailer part, trailer axle part, i went alloy for the runners simply i got it at the right price about 20 bucks a sheet more than what the steel floor was and it saves a fair bit of weight as well.
    as for mounting it i have welded tabs made of small angle iron to the frame with a hole and i will bolt it down with 6 mm round head bolts with nylock nuts underneath . we hung it off a set of hanging scales and it comes in at 624 kg with everthing thrown on the bed needed to finish it . has been a great experince building it and im enjoying every moment of it so far .
    im using a lincon 180c mig to weld mine and im pleased with it's performance i bought it to replace a big old cig transmig that was starting to give me trouble this lincon is half the size and a far better welder than my old one ever was imho

    good luck with your build
    cheers dean

  6. #5
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    Apr 2012
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    Dean

    Your reference (thanks) definitely says 1" per foot back from centre,
    but I have seen in threads on this forum
    "The standard rule for box trailers is for every foot of body length the axle is placed 1/2" to the rear of centre."
    but then
    "
    However, the rule does not apply to all trailers. Certain circumstances where the load being carried on or in a trailer is such that the weight of the load is centred toward the rear of the trailer, and requires the axle(s) to be placed further back. Eg; Boat trailer, Horse Float."

    Seems it is not a fixed rule.

    Styx

  7. #6
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    Default

    I move a baby Kubota tractor around in a box trailer once in a while - with loader, implement and counterweights it's probably about 800-900kg. The most difficult thing is getting the weighting of the axles right, and I often place it up to a foot forward or backward to account for different implements.

    In your case there's nothing hanging off your tractor, but without knowing what the weight distribution is between front and back, I don't think you can use a rule-of-thumb type placement of the axles (as you've noted). Maybe there's some axle weight data for the Fergie somewhere?

    Also, it looks like the tractor is a tight fit on the trailer - you maybe want a bit of space front and back to allow you to adjust the position in the case where you want to tweak the balance a bit?

  8. #7
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    hi there
    there seems to ne a lot of leeway for axle placment on trailers according to what formula for axle placment you choose to use . if i went the 1/2 rule my axles would only be 7 1/2 inches behind centreline and i dont recon there would be enough draw bar weight at that even now my drawbar just sits about 2 inches off the ground when not hooked to the car and i can lift it onto the car without a jocky wheel unloaded of course if i moved the exles forward i reckon i would have to stand on the draw bar to get it too sit on the ball got me buggered lol this is the first car trailer ive built .

    wheres that yonnee fella whe ya need him lol

  9. #8
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    Just a few comments.

    Is the weight of the Fergie with water in the wheels? Normally they will have water in the back wheels, but with the only grey Fergie I had anything to do with I ended up putting water in the front wheels too. It was the only way we could keep the front end down.

    5mm wall thickness I think is unneccessary. 2.5mm is ample and that is only to facilitate welding. For the drawbar on my trailer I used 100 x 50 x 2.5. It has proved to plenty strong enough and I have a tendency to overbuild most of my projects.

    I would consider extending the length of the drawbar a little. It makes reversing the trailer so much easier and if you wish a toolbox can be placed ahead of the tray. My trailer is 1.8m from the front of the tray to the towball coupling. The tray is 3600mm. It was made a few years ago now and I have attached a pic for information. It weighed 500Kg without the spare wheel, without a floor and without the two stage heavier duty suspension I added at a later date.

    I would still go tandem axle for ease of loading and balancing the load with load sharing suspension. A single item makes it more difficult to distribute the load.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #9
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    RustyArc:
    I'm trying to get the centre of gravity information from a tractor forum. Adding length to move the load around is what I'd like to avoid as I want the trailer as small as possible.

    BushMiller: Paul
    I won't have water in tyres or wheel weights as it adds too much weight.
    Maybe I can reduce the wall thickness of the tow bar and make it a little longer as you suggest. Seems rocker suspension might be better to distribute the load evenly if I don't have room to move the tractor back and forth.

    Thanks
    Styx

  11. #10
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    Yonnee is offline Trailer Bloke & Mild Mannered Moderator
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    Firstly, welcome aboard Styx.

    The link given above by Dean is to an American site where their towball loads on their tow vehicles are vastly different to ours, and if you're going to be towing anything close to that size tractor and trailer, they would be using at least an Ford F350 or a Dodge RAM. Generally here in Australia, the rule is 1/2" for every foot. But as you've quoted me saying, "... the rule does not apply to all trailers." However, this rule would be the minimum setback for an empty trailer. If you're trying to build the trailer as tight as possible fit to the tractor, then I would suggest you find the centre of gravity of the tractor, and if it's rear biased, then you might need to adjust the axle back a little.

    Your suspension choice will also effect the towball weight as all the weight forward of centre with a load sharing suspension will transfer to the towball, whereas with a slipper set (non-load sharing), the front axle will take some of that load, which is why non-load sharing suspensions require a higher load rating for the same ATM.
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  12. #11
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    Thanks Yonnee

    Yes, I've been reading your threads carefully and taking notes.

    Centre of gravity of the tractor is yet to be found. Can't think of an easy way to find this without a weighbridge or else a huge platform to balance the tractor on like a see-saw.

    I thought the slipper type suspension would probably be best but then a reputable supplier of parts is suggesting the rocker type because it gives higher capacity. But I don't think I will want to tow more load than the tractor. And as the centre of gravity of the tractor is high, cf a load of gravel say, I'd like suspension to not be too high. Have considered drop axles, but they would be more expensive and would make the trailer overall width more I'd think. Trying to keep it small, compact and strong.

    Styx

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Styx View Post
    Centre of gravity of the tractor is yet to be found. Can't think of an easy way to find this without a weighbridge or else a huge platform to balance the tractor on like a see-saw
    If you have yourself a good hydraulic bottle jack it should be pretty easy to work out where the centre of gravity is. Jack underneath the gear shift, and see if the front or rear lifts. Then depending on which, move the jack backwards or forwards, until the whole tractor is pretty much lifting with the jack. Use a good piece of timber going sideways, to spread the point loading across the width of the transmission case.

    Here's a video of a tractor being built. You can see them jack it up at one stage to remove the front box support. So the centre of gravity is rearward of where they are jacking.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_w49eaCmw4"]Fastest tractor build record attempt at rallysprint 2011 by broomhill team - YouTube[/ame]

    Cheers

  14. #13
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    Why not build the chassis without the drawbar and use it as a see-saw to establish the tractor and trailer chassis C of G?

    Once you know wher eit is just place the axles equidistant form the that point.

    When you add the drawbar, coupling and spare tyre I'd think you'd be pretty close to spot on.

  15. #14
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    Yonnee is offline Trailer Bloke & Mild Mannered Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by mid life crisis View Post
    hi there
    there seems to ne a lot of leeway for axle placment on trailers according to what formula for axle placment you choose to use . if i went the 1/2 rule my axles would only be 7 1/2 inches behind centreline and i dont recon there would be enough draw bar weight at that even now my drawbar just sits about 2 inches off the ground when not hooked to the car and i can lift it onto the car without a jocky wheel unloaded of course if i moved the exles forward i reckon i would have to stand on the draw bar to get it too sit on the ball got me buggered lol this is the first car trailer ive built .

    wheres that yonnee fella whe ya need him lol
    Dean's trailer, from what little I can see in the photos, seems to be a tandem Slipper setup. This will make a huge difference with an empty trailer as to how heavy the nose load is. The thing with a tandem Slipper trailer is to make sure the coupling is lower than the towball on the tow vehicle, when the trailer's sitting level. If you have to force the coupling down onto the towball, then it's trying to lift the rear wheels off the ground, which will lead to the trailer wanting to wag its tail.
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  16. #15
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    yeah 5 mm thick on the drawbar definetely more than is required.

    The horsefloat at the shop with 2 ponies and gear aboard isnt much shy of 2 tonne, its no thicker than 3 mm. No issues.

    with the only grey Fergie I had anything to do with I ended up putting water in the front wheels too. It was the only way we could keep the front end down.
    Yeah used to drive one as a kid. 3rd or 4th gear take offs from stand still (hey I was 10 and couldnt get crunch box shifting down pat). Jocky the hand throttle to keep the front wheels down.
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