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  1. #1
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    Default Spindle speed control, Huanyang VFD and DC-03

    I have been trying all sorts of combinations to get my Huanyang VFD, the Spindle and a DC-03 card working as they should. I am beginning to doubt my ability to do even such a simple thing as set up this system to work properly even when I am given step-by-step instructions and pictures to follow as well.

    I have included pictures of all the current setup and it is (supposedly) the correct way to do things but I just cannot get even a peep out of the system.

    The first picture (P1010638) is showing the DC-03 board and the connections to the VFD
    The brown lead is from DC-03 AV+ to ACM on the VFD
    The blue lead is from DC-03 Vout to Vi on the VFD
    The green and yellow lead is from DC-03 AGnd to 10V on the VFD

    The second picture (P1010640) is a better view of the DC-03 board and the colours of the connections to the BOB can be clearly seen.

    The third picture (P1010641) is the BOB which is a c10 and here it can be seen that I have wired the connections from the DC-03 correctly

    Still on picture number three, the red wire is the 5 volt DC input to the C10 board. The (green/yellow) earth is on the logical ground next to pin 17. Pin 17 is the (blue) signal pin to the DC-03 and the last two leads (the brown and white wires to input pins 1 and 16) are the leads to the DC-03 onboard relays that determine direction. These are not yet being used.

    The next three photos show that the pins on Mach3 are correctly set up for the motor outputs, Output signals and the spindle.

    Finally, the last photo shows that I have set the speed of the spindle to 20000rpm and that the spindle is currently turned off. Clicking on the "Spindle CW F5" button will cause the LED above the button to start flashing yellow but no speed will be shown

    You will just have to take my word for it that I have also set the VFD up so that it will take external commands by putting a 1 in PD001 and PD002. I also tried a 0 in PD001 but that didn't work either. All the other PD commands were als entered as per Mike's instructions.

    All the above was taken from the excellent manual written by seafurymike and Peter Homann has confirmed that these settings are correct.

    SO WHY THE HELL DOESN"T IT WORK THEN?

    Anomalies:
    With all wires connected then the most I can get as a reading is 0.68 v between any connection.

    If I disconnect the wire from AV+ (on the DC-3) to the ACM on the VFD, then I get a reading of 10.12 volts on the VFD between ACM and 10V and also between ACM and Vi

    If I disconnect all wires from the DC-03, I then get 10.12 volts between 10V and Vi and also between 10v and ACM but nothing between Vi and ACM

    There is a jumper next to the 10V connector on the VFD. It is labeled VI / VR. I have no idea what it is for because it is not mentioned in the manual.
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

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  3. #2
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    Good luck here Bob... I've no idea how these things work yet but will be buying one shortly.

    Brad.

  4. #3
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    Hey Bob,

    Just about to leave for the weekend but i have a dc-03 and have it running. When i get a bit of time to read all of your post i will see what i can find. Attached will be a simple PDF peter had, check against that and that will help but again haven't checked your current connections. I have noticed though your Trigger for spindle CCW & CW (unless you use a 2 triggers, one for each direction) should be set to to output #1 in your output signals as this matched your spindle setup and not to enable signal.

    Daniel

  5. #4
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    Thanks for that Daniel
    I didn't see that on Peter's site at all.
    I will try it all tomorrow and see what happens.
    Peter had previously told me that the information on Mike's site was correct.
    I will let you know how it all tuns out.

    Bob
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  6. #5
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    DC-03_to_VFD.pdf (382.5 KB, 0 views)

    I have just spent the last 15 minutes searching Peter's site for this information and I still can't see it anywhere.

    How did you find it Daniel?
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  7. #6
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    If you look under MB-02 BOB, there are 2 schematics with this detail. The PDF i posted was something i spoke to Peter about as i wanted to double check with him about my setup for for/rev selection so this was something that peter kindly put together(Blown up view) for me just to triple check my connections. Worked well, as i was running for/rev from the one relay on the dc-03 and as you can see i was wrong. The other thing i am looking into now is triggering the Aux relay in the VFD to control the spindle coolant switch. This saves heaps of time having to manually do it and makes sure you never forget.

    Daniel
    P.S Lucky, just got some time to check, so i help it helps you to get it running this weekend.

  8. #7
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    Thanks for that Daniel

    Would you mind listing out for me the way that you have your motor outputs and also your outputs are set in Mach3 please.

    The manual from Peter tries to cover all eventualities and consequently doesn't cover one setup in enough detail to be able to assure its veracity.

    I have at least got some movement out of the spindle now, but it doesn't seem to be correct yet, so comparing it with yours would help immensely.

    Bob

    PS when I get it all going properly I will put ALL the details on this board.
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  9. #8
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    Hi Bob

    Will be following this thread closely as i need to do the same thing with my vfd.
    Just one thing i noticed (could be wrong) your spindle relay is set to output #1 and your output signal is set to enable #1 not output #1.

    Michael.

  10. #9
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    Should write response later with all my settings as soon as i get a chance, but i just noticed in your pictures at the top you only have 3 wires to the VFD. I'm fairly certain even if you run it in one direction you still need a trigger wire to the VFD forward terminal from one of the relays in the DC-03 and the digital ground to the ground terminal(DCM??? on VFD to the cm of the relay on the dc-03).Also you will need to change the PD values in the VFD (first 2 from memory) to say use external control rather than front panel.

    Like i say, wait till later and i will post the full list of my settings for you.

    Daniel

  11. #10
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    Bob,


    i wrote and posted a setup guide for this a little while back. in addition I have re-written the DC-03 installation guide for Peter, but he may not have posted it on his site as yet. send him an email and ask for the new version, it's really well written.

    The manual I wrote is located here:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f170/t...ml#post1173306

    If you still have issues then post the specific problem and i'll try to address it.

    /Michael

  12. #11
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    Alrighty Bob,

    Got a little chance to chuck these setting together (have to admit this is all from my computer files so i will triple check against my actual setup later tonight. Before i proceed i must admit that i have changed my setup slightly compared to the DC-03 setup in the manual but will try to explain both or at least the settings as i go so any questions on either is welcome.

    First things first are the settings on the DC-03, as these are the same both ways. You have 4 settings on the DC-03 to setup.
    1. Jumper Block 1 (JP1) which is the voltage control generator. This is either the onboard dc-dc converter, which is optionally bought as an extra or via the 10v supply from common VFDs setup to have an external control signal. Obviously you and I both use VFD external voltage.
    2. Jumper Block 2 (JP2) which is the Logic Hi/Low selector. This is used to control the trigger for the relays. If set to high, the relays trigger when +5v is sent from the BOB (dependant on mach settings) to the DC-03 relay pins. For my setup I use Logic High and recommend it for non electrically minded people as it is more logical to see 5v for turning something on.
    3. Jumper Block 3 (JP3) which is the mode select but is made using two jumpers, the left side and right side. This needs to be set to PWM for our setup, this is done by installing the left side only.
    4. Finally the trimpot is the last setting and is used for attenuation of the output voltage. This is basically to reduce the voltage to what the VFD limit is for the scaling voltage. On the Huanyang VFD this is 10v. This will need to be set later using a multimeter.

    Next thing is the output signal wires form the BOB to the DC-03. Firstly the manual shows a way to setup PWM based control where one signal switches a relay on the DC-03 to control the direction, say N.C1 wired to FOR terminal on VFD and N.O1 to the Rev terminal or visa-versa. So when the relay isn’t triggered you get a “High” on the FOR terminal and when triggered this changes to the REV terminal. The other signal controls the enable. My setup differs from this and so does Peters schematic for the MB-02 (EN-009 PDF). On a side note, if you haven’t drawn a schematic like this you SHOULD. I have one in my control box and one on the PC, have it show jumpers on each board too, saves digging out a lot of datasheets. Anyway, the new way works by using two signal wires, one for each direction (CW or CCW). Both of these wires also act as enable wires and I’ll explain. When the Spindle is set to off both relays will be setup so neither the FOR or REV terminals receive a signal meaning the VFD has no clue which way to turn, so it shouldn’t. When it wants to turn in a certain direction a signal is sent along that wire to the DC-03 which switches the required relay (as wired by you) which means the direction terminal you require will now receive a signal and allow operation when the speed is set.

    So to set it up properly, you will need the following BOB connections to the terminal block on the DC-03:
    DC-03 ANA = Nothing as this is for something different (Potentiometer)
    DC-03 +5v = Obviously a logic supply of 5v.
    DC-03 GND = Obviously a logic supply of ±0v, also known as logic ground.
    DC-03 SIG = This is the PWM based signal from Mach 3 setup to a output signal from your BOB. (In my Case Pin 1)
    DC-03 RL1 = Relay 1 activate signal set to another Output Pin of your BOB (In my case pin 16)
    DC-03 RL2 = Relay 2 activate signal set to another Output Pin of your BOB (In my case pin 17)
    ***NOTE: If you will never use Reverse just setup one output pin to save using a signal***

    Next process is to setup Mach 3. Start by going into setup ports and pins and selecting the motor outputs setup page and enabling the Spindle output. Next set the Step Pin (PWM Really) to the wire connected to the DC-03 SIG terminal (In my case Output Pin 1). Next to that is the Direction pin and this would be used for the manual’s way of things but here we just need to ignore it and set the pin to zero so mach doesn’t see it. Finally set your port number and make sure your Low actives are off (need to check step as DC-03 I think is PWM low active signal??? Remind me as I will forget at the end of this).

    Next move on to the output signals setup. We will then setup the next two output signals available to us (so for me its Output #1 and Output #2). These two output signals need to be setup to match with your wires to RL1 and RL2 of the DC-03 (Again for me its Pin 16 = Output #1 and 17 = Output #2).

    Last but not least for the Mach 3 setup, goto spindle setup. Make sure the Disable Spindle Relays is un-checked and then setup your CW and CCW output signals based on what you did on the last page. (In my case CW is Output #1 and CCW is Output #2). Next tick “Use Spindle Motor Output” and “PWM Control”. Set the PWM base frequency to 50 and minimum PWM to 0%. Mine is actually set to some percentage to keep the spindle running at a minimum of 5000-6000RPM as I think the spindle doesn’t operate as well under these speeds. Finally setup the dwell times for spindle delay on ramp up and down.

    You should now be able to test the function (watch LEDs, hear relays etc) of the DC-03 under mach 3 control using S & M codes after setting the right parameters in the VFD (PD001 and PD002 to tell the VFD to use external Control). Once happy, hook up the VFD to the DC-03 by connecting the 10v side of things. DC-03 AV+ to the 10v terminal of the VFD, DC-03 AGND to one of the ACM terminals of the VFD and also DC-03 VOUT to the “VI” terminal of the VFD(Might be worth connecting “VI” after connecting everything else and running it just so you can monitor the full scale voltage out and adjust the trimpot on the DC-03 so the VFD doesn’t receive more than 10v).

    Next is the digital control wires from the DC-03 Relays and those connections are as follows. N.O1 to the FOR terminal, N.O2 to the REV terminal and finally the two C.M terminals to the DCM terminal of the VFD.

    Test out the spindle speed control in mach 3 and here’s hoping yours is working too. Again any questions just ask.

    Daniel

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    I hope its all there, makes sense and isn't wrong. I'd have to admit after my bucks weekend... who knows...lol. By the way mike thats a great guide only just read it. Very handy for those with those exact components. If i could recommend something, the photo showing the 10v analoge connections should also show a conenction to a direction pin and digital common as the vfd requires a signal to tell it direction (whether using relay on DC-03 or straight thru from output signal on BOB) or an enable signal to allow it to at least default to forward. I think it is this side of the connections that there is little information on and people are getting confused.

    Daniel
    P.S Will check accuracy tonight hopefully and also write a quick summary of my settings so people don't have to read all the stuff above just for setting details.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedfuse View Post
    The first three are set up as per yours

    4. Finally the trimpot is the last setting and is used for attenuation of the output voltage. This is basically to reduce the voltage to what the VFD limit is for the scaling voltage. On the Huanyang VFD this is 10v. This will need to be set later using a multimeter.

    Trim pot??? Nobody else mentioned the trim pot anywhere.

    Next thing is the output signal wires form the BOB to the DC-03. Firstly the manual shows a way to setup PWM based control where one signal switches a relay on the DC-03 to control the direction, say N.C1 wired to FOR terminal on VFD and N.O1 to the Rev terminal or visa-versa. So when the relay isn’t triggered you get a “High” on the FOR terminal and when triggered this changes to the REV terminal. The other signal controls the enable. My setup differs from this and so does Peters schematic for the MB-02 (EN-009 PDF). On a side note, if you haven’t drawn a schematic like this you SHOULD. I have one in my control box and one on the PC, have it show jumpers on each board too, saves digging out a lot of datasheets. Anyway, the new way works by using two signal wires, one for each direction (CW or CCW). Both of these wires also act as enable wires and I’ll explain. When the Spindle is set to off both relays will be setup so neither the FOR or REV terminals receive a signal meaning the VFD has no clue which way to turn, so it shouldn’t. When it wants to turn in a certain direction a signal is sent along that wire to the DC-03 which switches the required relay (as wired by you) which means the direction terminal you require will now receive a signal and allow operation when the speed is set.

    With you on this. It took me all Sunday to work out that the picture of the DC-03 connections to the VFD was missing a wire

    So to set it up properly, you will need the following BOB connections to the terminal block on the DC-03:
    DC-03 ANA = Nothing as this is for something different (Potentiometer)
    DC-03 +5v = Obviously a logic supply of 5v. Red wire
    DC-03 GND = Obviously a logic supply of ±0v, also known as logic ground. Green/yellow wire
    DC-03 SIG = This is the PWM based signal from Mach 3 setup to a output signal from your BOB. (In my Case Pin 1) Blue wire to pin 17. Again, this caused me some (lots of) confusion because its name kept changing from PWM to Sig to Spindle, output etc.
    DC-03 RL1 = Relay 1 activate signal set to another Output Pin of your BOB (In my case pin 16) Ditto, Pin 1 to white wire
    DC-03 RL2 = Relay 2 activate signal set to another Output Pin of your BOB (In my case pin 17) Brown wire to pin 6
    ***NOTE: If you will never use Reverse just setup one output pin to save using a signal***
    Although I don't expect to use reverse I am setting it up so that I can use it for 'whatever' a bit later. The numbers and wires won't change, just the results



    Next process is to setup Mach 3. Start by going into setup ports and pins and selecting the motor outputs setup page and enabling the Spindle output. Next set the Step Pin (PWM Really) to the wire connected to the DC-03 SIG terminal (In my case Output Pin 1). Next to that is the Direction pin and this would be used for the manual’s way of things but here we just need to ignore it and set the pin to zero so mach doesn’t see it. Ah, this also had me fooled. Finally set your port number and make sure your Low actives are off (need to check step as DC-03 I think is PWM low active signal??? Remind me as I will forget at the end of this). Both are unticked Another problem here was that the blurb that Peter Homann had written to go with the DC-03 Mach3 set up (Page 16 of the manual) didn't agree with his pictures; so he would be saying to do something (as per the diagram) but the diagram showed different pinouts

    Next move on to the output signals setup. We will then setup the next two output signals available to us (so for me its Output #1 and Output #2). These two output signals need to be setup to match with your wires to RL1 and RL2 of the DC-03 (Again for me its Pin 16 = Output #1 and 17 = Output #2). Pins 16 and 1

    Last but not least for the Mach 3 setup, goto spindle setup. Make sure the Disable Spindle Relays is un-checked and then setup your CW and CCW output signals based on what you did on the last page. (In my case CW is Output #1 and CCW is Output #2). Next tick “Use Spindle Motor Output” and “PWM Control”. Set the PWM base frequency to 50 and minimum PWM to 0%. Mine is actually set to some percentage to keep the spindle running at a minimum of 5000-6000RPM as I think the spindle doesn’t operate as well under these speeds. Finally setup the dwell times for spindle delay on ramp up and down. All done.

    You should now be able to test the function (watch LEDs, hear relays etc) of the DC-03
    I can't hear the relays, but it is working.
    under mach 3 control using S & M codes after setting the right parameters in the VFD (PD001 and PD002 to tell the VFD to use external Control). Once happy, hook up the VFD to the DC-03 by connecting the 10v side of things. DC-03 AV+ to the 10v terminal of the VFD, DC-03 AGND to one of the ACM terminals of the VFD and also DC-03 VOUT to the “VI” terminal of the VFD(Might be worth connecting “VI” after connecting everything else and running it just so you can monitor the full scale voltage out and adjust the trimpot on the DC-03 so the VFD doesn’t receive more than 10v).
    I noticed that Mike actually used a resistor on his setup. Were you aware of the trim pot Mike?
    You would measure between the VI and AGnd ?


    Next is the digital control wires from the DC-03 Relays and those connections are as follows. N.O1 to the FOR terminal, N.O2 to the REV terminal and finally the two C.M terminals to the DCM terminal of the VFD.

    Test out the spindle speed control in mach 3 and here’s hoping yours is working too. Again any questions just ask.

    Daniel
    Thanks heaps Daniel. That is a very clear and succinct description of what is required to make it work. I will put it all into a table so that it is easily followed by anyone following, such as mkc2.

    PS I am using trailer wire for the connections to the VFD from the DC_03. 7 wires are required and that is what trailer wire has.

    I now have to change all the PD numbers to make Mach3 agree with the VFD display. I just typed in s24000 m3 and the speed changed to 24000 in Mach but only to 22438 on the VFD. Maybe this will be OK when I adjust the trim pot. But that will have to wait until tomorrow now.

    Thanks again Daniel.
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by seafurymike View Post
    I wrote and posted a setup guide for this a little while back. in addition I have re-written the DC-03 installation guide for Peter, but he may not have posted it on his site as yet. send him an email and ask for the new version, it's really well written.

    The manual I wrote is located here:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f170/t...ml#post1173306

    If you still have issues then post the specific problem and I'll try to address it.

    /Michael
    Thanks for that Michael

    I used your manual to make some sense of what I was doing. You also used a smoothstepper and a Gecko in your manual. Whilst I realise that you aren't in the business of writing manuals for Peter's products, I also had a few problems because you used the components that you did. I don't have a background in electronics or anything like that, so unless the manual clearly says connect point A to point B then I tend to get a little lost in the complexities of the ideas. On the other hand, if I manage to find the money to upgrade to these two items, then it is all going to be a very straight forward job for me.

    Having said all this and also my reply to twistedfuse (Daniel) I think that the main problem is in the original manual from Peter Homann. He does not supply enough graphical data to make it easy and the manual tends towards generalities (so as to cover all BOBs) rather than instructions for one or two specific and common breakout boards (BOBs). There is no real expense in this, just his time to write the instructions and do the drawings. In fact, a lot of the work has already been done for him in these forums. It just needs prettying up.

    Thanks again Michael. It all makes it easier for the next person as well; doesn't it mkc2 and spidey4fun?

    Bob
    Bob Willson
    The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.

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    Thanks guys
    Sounds like a challenge

    Michael

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