flattening plates

[sinjin]

sorry i ment do you know of any reviews for either of those 2..Heaps for No4 etc. can't find any for the 1,2 or 3..thanks anyway

[Mr Brush]

The DMT DuoSharp plate in Coarse/Extra Coarse (shown on the left in Derek's photo) may not ultimately be as flat as the Shapton diamond plate, but I would contend that it is more than good enough for flattening waterstones, etc. for sharpening purposes. By the time you've run a blade over a flattened stone (even a Shapton) just a few times....it ain't perfectly flat any more !

(1) Its much cheaper than the Shapton plate, especially if bought on eBay from various US sellers. I think I paid under A$100 for the largest DuoSharp with Coarse diamond on one side and Extra Coarse on the other.

(2) Use the Extra Coarse (black) plate for flattening stones, etc., while the Coarse (blue) plate is useful for rapidly forming new primary bevels, cleaning up chipped cutting edges, etc.

Since using a DuoSharp to flatten waterstones, I've noticed that I get a much flatter surface bringing the (oversize) diamond plate to the stone rather than rubbing the stone on a plate or abrasive on glass. Remember the larger DuoSharp has a 10" x 4" abrasive surface, i.e. much larger than most waterstones or Shaptons.

I have a couple of the Shapton M5 ceramic plates on order from Stu (in 5000 and 12000 grit), so looking forward to taking my sharpening beyond the 8000 grit I currently use.......

[sinjin]

Thanks for your replies.
My stones.
Norton 320 i think it is and 2000 and 4000
King 800, 1000, 6000, 10,000
Japanese natural stone...not sure who knows but around the 15,000 plus
Diamond plates, fine medium and coarse.
Flattening 12mm float glass and w&d

The reason i was talking about the Shapton double sided plate is a couple i have spoken to on the phone who use them say they are very good except for the cost as i said around the $500 bracket. As people like Harold Stanley from HMS tools says.
Plenty of systems work but these new plates just make it easier and quicker.
For Japanese blades etc...its all fine. On Western blades where we tend to have micro bevels 1mm wide maybe its not nearly so obvious how flat stones are.

But when doing Japanese plane blades etc i seem to be flattening water stones alot to keep the bevel dead flat. And this goes for a couple of very big Japanese chisels i have also..roughly 50 and 65m wide chisels.

Anyway i think what works for everyone is well and good.

[Bob38S]

For flattening my carborundum oil stones I use a concrete paver ,water and garnet blasting grit .
I use a circular figure of 8 pattern turning the stone end to end frequently and keep the grinding medium fairly wet .

Kev

I use the same idea but use a Besser block - the sides are large and surprisingly square.

[Mr Brush]

sinjin - I think you'll find the coarse Norton stones pretty hopeless for flattening. They are so soft that they dish after only a few strokes with an A2 blade.

Unfortunately I bought a Norton 220 grit before I worked this out. Its still lurking at the bottom of my waterstone pond, unused and unloved......

[derekcohen]

Thanks for your replies.
My stones.
Norton 320 i think it is and 2000 and 4000
King 800, 1000, 6000, 10,000
Japanese natural stone...not sure who knows but around the 15,000 plus
Diamond plates, fine medium and coarse.
Flattening 12mm float glass and w&d

The reason i was talking about the Shapton double sided plate is a couple i have spoken to on the phone who use them say they are very good except for the cost as i said around the $500 bracket. As people like Harold Stanley from HMS tools says.
Plenty of systems work but these new plates just make it easier and quicker.
For Japanese blades etc...its all fine. On Western blades where we tend to have micro bevels 1mm wide maybe its not nearly so obvious how flat stones are.

But when doing Japanese plane blades etc i seem to be flattening water stones alot to keep the bevel dead flat. And this goes for a couple of very big Japanese chisels i have also..roughly 50 and 65m wide chisels.

Anyway i think what works for everyone is well and good.

Hi Sinjin

An observation: a flat stone is really needed when (1) you are lapping the back of a blade, or (2) if you use a honing guide.

A flat stone is far less critical if you freehand a blade (since the effective length of the stone is increased). Honing guides require a longer (and therefore flatter) expanse to work.

Harrelson Stanley is the agent for Shaptons in the USA, so he would be supporting the use of the Shapton diamond plates. He is a good guy, nevertheless, and has much to offer in the world of sharpening. Get his DVD on "Side Sharpening". It can change your world.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[sinjin]

Derek i have his DVD. And Derek i will have to just disagree with you about how flat plates need to be free or or using a jig for Japanese blades and thats whats these forums so good everyone has an opinion.

[Dengue]

Hello, do you guys recommend the DuoSharp with Coarse diamond on one side and Extra Coarse on the other, or the Fine / Coarse combination for flattening waterstones? I have the #1200 and #6000 grit stones.

[Mr Brush]

Definitely Extra Coarse/Coarse, and preferably the 10" DuoSharp. If you have a look on eBay there are several US sellers offering these at a fraction of local prices.

About 12 months ago, when the exchange rate was nowhere near as good as today, I got a complete set of 10" DuoSharps (Extra Coarse/Coarse, Fine/Extra Fine), plus the DuoSharp base, including shipping, for less than the price of ONE DuoSharp locally.

I'm sure there are still some good eBay deals on these.

[Dengue]

thanks MrB for this advice, am following it up now. Out of interest, what would be the effect of trying to flatten a waterstone with the Fine / Extra Fine Duosharp ( 600/ 1200 grits)

[Mr Brush]

I'm sure it would work.................eventually. You'd be there a long time though !

Ceramic stones like the Shapton are pretty hard, so you need a fairly aggressive abrasive to flatten/de-glaze them quickly.

To be honest I use both the Coarse and Extra Coarse sides of the DuoSharp for flattening stones, and either works just as well.

Maybe check out the best eBay prices you can find on the 10" DuoSharp, then price up one of Stu's diamond flattening plates for comparison?

[Mr Brush]

Haven't bought from this guy, but here's one example:

Sharpening Stone DMT DuoSharp 10" Coarse/Extra Coarse (eBay item 230575228857 end time 17-Feb-11 08:12:00 AEDST) : Home Garden

That's about A$125 including shipping......vs. about A$200 locally.