Is Pfeil steel good?

[Frank&Earnest]

100 people have looked at it without comment... https://www.woodworkforums.com/f127/o...xperts-122968/, so it is time to try another angle.

At 30x the steel of Pfeil chisels shows a speckled surface that suggests the possibility of uneven behaviour of the different bits stuck together. When shown this, the gentlemen of British extraction in the club immediately took the opportunity to claim the superiority of Sheffield steel, without producing any evidence, of course. Is anyone prepared to break a lance for the Swiss with some convincing argument? I have to admit that the only chisel edge I have ever seen snapping (into soft wood, to boot) was a new 5mm Pfeil V. At the time I blamed a defective factory sharpening that had weakened too much the bottom of the V, but there could be more to it.

[Andy Mac]

Hi F&E,
I bought a set of Pfeil carving tools for uni, to teach students with. I have a couple in my own kit, and given the limited range available in this country I thought I'd try them again. My overall impression is very good, verging on excellent. We've used them in some horrid timber, with very green users, and not a breakage... apart from having a serious chip taken from the smallest gouge when dropped onto the floor!
I'm not going into the metalurgy, they just seem good, solid tools and come with a reasonable polish from new. My feeling is Kirschen are better, particularly the polished finish, but have heard that rejected on this forum before.
The only chisel I have seriously broken was a Sheffield steel bevel-sided one, whacking into some lovely old Aust. eucalypt. Took a huge semi circular chunk from the blade!! I handed in my striped apron soon after, despite hearing that similar injuries occur on cold chisels if the temper isn't right, too hard.

Cheers,

[Scribbly Gum]

There is a discussion on an old post here:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/g...chisels-25318/

Personally I have never owned a Pfeil chisel so can't comment from experience.
I have read several reviews which show disappointment with their performance compared to others on the market and especially others in their price range.

Having said that, there are so many excellent chisels on the market at the moment that the Pfiels may still be OK but not really be competitive for the price.
The thing is that you can find excellent chisels on the second hand market that will do everything that you ask of them. On Ebay, excellent quality English chisels are often sold for next to nothing. They are not the flavour of the month and are by-passed by buyers.
I used to sell a lot but there is no money in them at the moment. There are literally dozens available at the markets here every Sunday, but because they are not Titans or Bergs they are usually left on the table. Yet these chisels - the Marples, Wards, Mathiesons, Ibbotsons, Taylors, Sorbys, Herrings etc are as good as anyone will ever need.
Funny isn't it.
Cheers
SG

PS I am speaking generally and hope that this discussion was not meant to focus totally on carving chisels.

[issatree]

Hi Frank & Earnest,
I do a bit of Carving, & also Collect Carving Chisels.
I have 2 sets of Pfiel's, 1 is a D Size, which I was lucky to win as a Door Prize many years ago, & the other is the normal size I bought at an Auction, for a steal.
I continue to buy, but if I come across" The Addis Carving Chisels ", then that makes me a Happy Person.
Hard to find, & these days, most sellers know about them.
HTPAA Tool Sales are the way to find them, & you will pay for them.
I have some German Dastra, very good, & a set I bought from Kew, Vic. of Balinese Chisels.
These have no handles, except for the twisted metal to hold on to, in the smaller chisels.
31 in the set, & I Polish - Sharpened them with Green Rouge.
I cannot fault any of them, but I have a preference for ; Addis, Pfiel, Dastra, Berg, Bali, in that order.
Regards,
issatree.
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[issatree]

Hi Again,
I forgot to say, Ask Neil of U Beaut, as He Is " The Carver ".
issatree.
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[Frank&Earnest]

Thanks guys, especially Scribbly for the link, where there is some reference to purportedly objective testing. My interest is indeed in carving tools but steel is steel, whatever is made with it. I grew up around 2Cherries and Stubai, those would be my first choices, but Pfeils are easy to get from the nearest store.

Preferences are subjective however. It would be good if somebody could come up with an explanation of the peculiar type of steel and its advantages/disadvantages. All the others, whatever their quality, all look the same.

[mic-d]

My Pfeil carving chisels have always served me well and held an edge well. About all I can add really.


Cheers
Michael

[nz_carver]

ok well old Pfeil are grate
new stuff now days is not as good

[underfoot]

I like my Pfeils and I love collecting and using old Addis chisels,
but I need to remind myself that some of the most amazing carvings I've ever seen were done with sharpened leaf springs

[Frank&Earnest]

I like my Pfeils and I love collecting and using old Addis chisels,
but I need to remind myself that some of the most amazing carvings I've ever seen were done with sharpened leaf springs

Yes, my question was a bit academic, I agree. In the end, it boils down to
1- how quickly it can be sharpened to its best
2- how good the best sharpened edge is
3- how quickly the best sharpened edge becomes dull.

Unless the best edge that can be achieved is not good enough to produce a clean cut, the carving result is not affected, only the time and sharpening expertise required are.
It is a safe bet that all the leading brand chisels are at least that good, and because none of us has objectively measured 1, 2 and 3, we can only go by anecdotal evidence.

[CV3]

I have mostly Lamp chisels I also like 2- Cherry. I have some Swiss made. They are good tools. I find them good for light work but seem to be a bit brittle for heavier work. I have had to redo some edges that chipped in heavier use.

[rsser]

If memory serves FWW also did a comparative test and the Pfeil didn't rate too well.

[Artesano]

...now , what was that old saying about workers who blame their tools?

...hat , coat...

PS - on a more serious note , even if don't have all that much Pfeil tools , I know some professional carvers who swear by them .IMO , all the big names in the industry make perfectly useful tools , and chipping edges (I've broken 3 gouges in half ) is user's fault - there are things you shouldn't do with a carving tool , as I now know

BTW , shops put a warning "Not for begginers" on Japanese carving tools for a very good reason - they are easy to chip , and the steel is anything but crap

[Frank&Earnest]

Uhmm, I hope my reference in passing to the snapped edge (not the shaft!) did not overshadow the point of my question, which was to know why that steel looks different from all the others. Yes, I broke in half a Stubai some 30 years ago, by sheer stupidity, and I do not mind admitting it. The point, if any, is that if one kind is much more fragile than another, the amount of stupidity needed to break it diminishes to a point below the population's average.

[Artesano]

The point, if any, is that if one kind is much more fragile than another, the amount of stupidity needed to break it diminishes to a point below the population's average.

I'm afraid you are right there , Frank - but a (slightly) more fragile steel is also harder , so it takes better edge and keeps it for longer time. As I see it , some tools are just not made for the inexperienced user ( no offence meant) ... Here's an example :

Why some Japanese saws should not be used by those without experience with this type of saw