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Thread: Dozuki
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12th October 2010, 02:25 PM #1Intermediate Member
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Dozuki
Hey guys and girls,
I am about to get started on some big projects in a week or two and have read a lot about japense saws, mostly about the dozuki. I have a few questions that I would appreciate some help with, first off, is a dozuki fine precision saw good for dovetails on some thick redgum, roughly around 30-40mm? Also, can the saw be used for general purpose cutting or is it best to have a seperate saw for general use? Last one, where is the best spot to pick one up for a reasonable price? BTW im in wodonga, victoria.
Looking forward to hearing from you guys and im going to say thanks in advance
Cheers,
Matt
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12th October 2010 02:25 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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13th October 2010, 07:39 AM #2
Hi Matt
Provided your sawing technique is sound, a dozuki will work in the hard redgum. If it's not, you'll come to grief very quickly. But then, you'll come to grief in softwood as well.
For dovetails, I'd recommend a rip-tooth dozuki. I have a number of Nakaya saws, both cross-cut and rip-tooth, and swear by them for all manner of fine work - dovetails, tenons, and my shoji and kumiko work. In the same way as you wouldn't use a finishing plane to dimension timber, I'd advise against using the fine-cut dozuki saw for general cutting work. A couple of general dozuki saws would be better suited for that. There are many good Japanese saws around for general cutting.
Carba-tec sell the Nakaya saw, but I believe it's only the cross-cut type. Lee Valley sell a rip-tooth dozuki saw here. I've used this saw, and it's very good, but it is a bit expensive.
Regards
DesSee some of my work and general shoji/kumiko information at kskdesign.com.au
My Instagram page
My YouTube channel
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13th October 2010, 08:24 AM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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Cant recommend this store enough Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.. Email Stu and ask him what he's got that would suit, he's incredibly helpful (and cheap)
I've been using the rip side of my Ryoba to cut dovetails and tenons. Let us know what you get because I think Rip dozuki would be better....
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13th October 2010, 02:18 PM #4Intermediate Member
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Seems rip tooth is the way to go for dovetails. Cheers for that guys
Any links to a general use dozuki saw Des? I can't seem to find any in the carb-a-tec catalogue or any catalogue I have looked in lately.
And sam I have been browing the site you said to look at it and I think I might be buying from them within the next day or so. Just one quick question, how long does it take to post over here and roughly how much is it? Im especially interested in your answer Sam since you are also in Victoria.
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13th October 2010, 02:36 PM #5
Any of these would probably be OK. The Z saw seems to be quite a good saw.
DesSee some of my work and general shoji/kumiko information at kskdesign.com.au
My Instagram page
My YouTube channel
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13th October 2010, 02:41 PM #6Intermediate Member
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I don't know how I missed those on the carb-a-tec website
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13th October 2010, 03:07 PM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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Matt, I bought two saws which took about 2 weeks to reach me and the postage cost was $10.
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13th October 2010, 03:14 PM #8Intermediate Member
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Seems I'll be emailing Stu either tonight or tomorrow sometime then
Thanks again Des and Sam
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13th October 2010, 04:28 PM #9
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13th October 2010, 08:09 PM #10
And that's why I buy all my tools in Japan.
But without trying to defend Carba-Tec (or any other local supplier of overseas products for that matter), I'm sure they have their pricing structures, and grounds for charging the prices they do - exchange rate fluctuations, maintaining their shops and staff, and probably many other reasons that I can't think of.
DesSee some of my work and general shoji/kumiko information at kskdesign.com.au
My Instagram page
My YouTube channel
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13th October 2010, 08:46 PM #11
Then Des, you know full well what that saw should really be priced at.
I'm not looking at Carba-tec any more. The more I look, the more annoying it is and some of that annoyance has nothing to do with their pricing policies.
I don't feel quite so bad about cutting their lunch any more.
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14th October 2010, 09:14 PM #12Intermediate Member
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Spoke to Stu today and he suggested these two saws for what I wanted,Gyokucho/Razorsaw Ryoba. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan. and Razorsaw Dozuki, rip cut 240mm, complete saw. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.
Stu gave me some really good advice and will probably end up buying these two fine Japanese saws.
Cheers everyone for the help
Matt
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9th November 2010, 02:43 PM #13Novice
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The Z-saw panel kicks the bejeebus out of pretty much all replaceable saws out there from my experience. Highly recommended if you are fed up with replaceable saws that don't perform.
If I want a better kerf (and control, feedback, basically overall much much better than replaceable saws)I have to use my Mitsukawa saws in lack of a properly fully handmade cold-forged saw which I'm saving up for.
In any case, I would not use a dozuki for dovetails if I wanted to make a dovetail. With the Azebiki-nokogiri and a good nomi it becomes faster, better and also more reliable.
A dozuki with it's fine nature has a tendency to become clogged on long dovetails, the Azebiki solves this problem with the curvature of the blade.
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9th November 2010, 03:34 PM #14
Hi Halicon,
If you are convinced that the Z Saws are the best out there, then I have to ask, which saws have you actually tried? The other saws must be pretty horrid if the Z Saws are 'the best'.
Me, I don't mind them and for the money, they are very good. But for outright performance, they are overshadowed by Gyokucho for not much more money. I find the Nakaya to also be very good, if a little more delicate but finer cutting in the bargain. Hishika (?) are ok, nothing to write home about. Kijima are quite nice, but also a little delicate but generally out cut both Z Saw and Gyokucho easily.
That's just dozuki type saws mind you. If you want to start talking about ryoba and kataba, then Z Saw, for the money, really are tough to beat.
That is until I have talks with Mr. Mitsukawa. Not if, but when...
I must suggest that if you are finding that your dozuki is clogging on rip cuts, then it's probably because it's cross cut (as all Z Saw are) and they do tend to have trouble clearing the saw dust created by rip cuts. I'd suggest using a rip cut dozuki (which Z Saw do not make, and are not intending to any time soon) from Gyokucho (the #372 is excellent), Nakaya, Hishika or Kijima.
Of course, only a few of those are commonly available outside Japan, that is until I get some more info from Kijima, which should be arriving soon. I was surprised that Kijima actually had a rip dozuki, and it does appear to be very traditional in design, as opposed to the modified rip tooth style on the Gyokucho #372.
At the moment, as an all round dozuki capable of ripping nicely, cross cutting well and dealing with anything you can throw at it, the #372 is the best available, without exception.
Sorry if you don't agree, but that's how I see it. And I get to see waaaaaaaaay too many Japanese saws.
(Caveat, I do sell Japanese tools, and I spoke with all of the above on Sunday, albeit briefly.)
P.S. After getting the seal of approval from Mr. Mitsukawa, I'm half inclined to start using one of his 180mm ryoba for all kinds of joinery. A very sweet, not terribly expensive saw. Now if I can just convince him to make them with a hardwood tooth configuration (should be easy enough), then we might have a winner.
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9th November 2010, 06:45 PM #15Novice
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Mr. Schtoo, I believe there are a few confusions here.
Mitsukawas saws are as you know not in the same league as Z-saws. I use the Z-saw for rough cutting, that's it. My aim was price vs performance and in this regard Z-saw can be a very versatile tool.
About clogging up, well I'm using a mitre type Kataba from Mitsukawa. Naturally it can get the work done but it is a polishing type saw so why do it that way? You will need to use a nomi to make the dovetail anyway.
Also the fact that there is a saw out there designed for making dovetails and the risk of long cuts clogging a dozuki. I don't care what you say but it is a fact that without a chipclearer as in a mitre style some of the teeth won't be able to reach the intended surface to cut.
Oh, mind you I don't have a dozuki Z-saw panel. Somehow I got by anyway with a mitre style panel
My next saw will be a Ryoba style with cold-forging from one of the two smith left that still forges saws like that. I'm quite sure you can get a hardwood setting from Mitsukawa though, if not just hit it up at the mitate-shokunin and let him do the change. Mitsukawas saws are quite easy to sharpen.
I have to disagree with your point, I'm a sword polisher that tries to do everything traditionally and this use of a dozuki is not since I want more control than a blind dovetail.
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