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  1. #46
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    There is no direct Chinese copy of the 090 to be found on the web, but an 070 copy does exist:

    China 070 chainsaw - Sell Offer,Trade Leads From China Zhejiang Yongkang Lvshen Gardening Tools Co., Ltd.

    Fortunately, there are enough visible differences on this product to distinguish it from the real thing. The Chinese version is called "Ivshen LS-070" and has roughly the same specs.

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  3. #47
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    Nov 2004
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  4. #48
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    After my chain speed discussion with Bob i got my old calculator out and set about making a speed diagram. Just finished it. In school i was worthless at maths and i tend to punch the wrong keys, so don't string me if there is the odd mistake. Still, a few conclusions can be made. Just one tooth more on the sprocket makes a lot of difference and with speed increase there is matching torque loss. The orange section is the rpm-range of the 090, with the added 0.404 chain calculations.

    A 9 tooth sprocket in hardwood would either cause smoking wood or a smoking piston; i think 7 tooth sprockets are the best way to go for this machine.

    This weekend i purchased another three-phase electric E30 on Ebay. Its motor has 2.7 kW output for 3.3 kW input and turns at 2750 rpm, yet has a 7 tooth sprocket, giving it plenty of pulling power at only half the 090's chain speed!

    greetings all

    gerhard

  5. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Queanbeyan NSW
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    61

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post


    The Granberg ripping chain has been tested by a number of CS millers in the ArboristeSite and reported times are not sufficiently different to convince me one way or the other. It seems like the optimum filing angles used on this type chain has not been optimized. Weisyboy has also made his own version of this chain and found little difference.
    I made a modified version of this chain some time ago along with the standard version, my findings were that the modified skip version I made cut faster than the standard and left a very good finish with around 1mm of washboard effect. I use a 15o top plate angle with considerably lower than normal depth gauges.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    There is no direct Chinese copy of the 090 to be found on the web, but an 070 copy does exist:


    Fortunately, there are enough visible differences on this product to distinguish it from the real thing. The Chinese version is called "Ivshen LS-070" and has roughly the same specs.
    Hi Gerhard

    Once again these threads seem to go off track, we start on an 090 and end up with 880's, 070's and ripping chain.
    For a start there would be no more load on the bearings running two powerheads on a mill than a single running a long bar. Bars are also double ended which has a powerhead mount each end of the bar.

    As for visible differences on the 070 copy, there aren't many, I have just worked on a Wun Hung Lo 070 copy and all the parts had Stihl part numbers cast into them, recoil starter side cover had Stihl on it, even the bar had the Stihl logo, it's just that the quality of the saw is total crap. I will not be working on any more of these, just not worth the headaches.
    Check out the pic on the Alibaba site.
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/279417718/070_chain_saw/showimage.html

    On this particular saw which is 3 months old 2 recoil start assy's had to be replaced, the flywheel fan contacts the recoil starter housing, the crankshaft nut on the clutch side had worn a hole in the chain cover due to the nut being too long, the carburettor was near on impossible to adjust correctly to get the saw running, everything was loose, the muffler had almost fallen off, the list is too long to name all the faults.

    The owner of this saw is now looking to get rid of it and buy a decent saw for milling.

    Cheers .... Laurie
    Carlton chain; GB Forestry Equipment; GB standard & xtra long guide bars; custom milling chain; Trilink & Sabre chain & bars. 0413 392960

  6. #50
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    After my chain speed discussion with Bob i got my old calculator out and set about making a speed diagram. Just finished it. In school i was worthless at maths and i tend to punch the wrong keys, so don't string me if there is the odd mistake. Still, a few conclusions can be made. Just one tooth more on the sprocket makes a lot of difference and with speed increase there is matching torque loss. The orange section is the rpm-range of the 090, with the added 0.404 chain calculations.

    A 9 tooth sprocket in hardwood would either cause smoking wood or a smoking piston; i think 7 tooth sprockets are the best way to go for this machine.
    I don't see why a 9 pin 404 at 7000 rpm (1290 m/min) would smoke wood as it's about the same chains speed as 8 pin 3/8 at 9000 rpm (1342 m/min) which my 880 will cut all day.

    The number of drive sprocket teeth used depends what is being cut. In small wood unless the rakers are lowered the 090 will be outcut by a higher reving saw. Dropping the rakers is not going to be a lot of fun if tomorrow the operator is back to cutting big wood, The excess torque on the 090 does nothing in small wood so if all one had was an 090, slipping an 8 or 9 pin on the drive would be a way of getting the job done quicker. Tomorrow when the big wood cutting is needed then the 7 pin could be put back on, one can't exactly put the raker metal back on the raker. The problem with doing this on an outboard clutch saw is that unlike saws with an inboard clutch it is a PITA to continually want to swap the drive sprocket so it rarely happens. I will swap the 880 between 7 and 8 pin on a regular basis. I also have 9 - 11 pin sprockets but I just play with those.

    There is one error in your table, There is no such thing as 0.375" chain, 3/8 chain is 0.367", this is why my graph reports 367 data. I agree with your other calcs to about the 3rd figure.

  7. #51
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    Nov 2004
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    Thanks Bob,

    i'll recalculate the 3/8 lines and edit the table

  8. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    canberra
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    20

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawchain View Post
    I made a modified version of this chain some time ago along with the standard version, my findings were that the modified skip version I made cut faster than the standard and left a very good finish with around 1mm of washboard effect. I use a 15o top plate angle with considerably lower than normal depth gauges.



    Hi Gerhard

    Once again these threads seem to go off track, we start on an 090 and end up with 880's, 070's and ripping chain.
    For a start there would be no more load on the bearings running two powerheads on a mill than a single running a long bar. Bars are also double ended which has a powerhead mount each end of the bar.

    As for visible differences on the 070 copy, there aren't many, I have just worked on a Wun Hung Lo 070 copy and all the parts had Stihl part numbers cast into them, recoil starter side cover had Stihl on it, even the bar had the Stihl logo, it's just that the quality of the saw is total crap. I will not be working on any more of these, just not worth the headaches.
    Check out the pic on the Alibaba site.
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/279417718/070_chain_saw/showimage.html

    On this particular saw which is 3 months old 2 recoil start assy's had to be replaced, the flywheel fan contacts the recoil starter housing, the crankshaft nut on the clutch side had worn a hole in the chain cover due to the nut being too long, the carburettor was near on impossible to adjust correctly to get the saw running, everything was loose, the muffler had almost fallen off, the list is too long to name all the faults.

    The owner of this saw is now looking to get rid of it and buy a decent saw for milling.

    Cheers .... Laurie
    Gee Laurie, I thought you enjoyed spending your weekend swearing in chinese then charging me next to nothing for your time!

    Laurie is dead right about my saw. The standard of construction and the poor quality of some of the components justify the Piece of #### medallion. I bought it knowing that I could choose the wrong supplier. I ended up getting it on my door for under four hundred dollars (AliExpress) and in the knowledge that I was buying a fake.

    Scumbags on Ebay.com.au have been selling these things as originals and getting up to 1400 spondulas for them...nice little earner as long as you keep your home address a secret.

    I am looking for a replacement at the moment but in the meantime have sourced some better components in the hope I can get it to be a little more reliable. Oregon drum and sprocket, Better quality Carb and an AET electronic ignition assembly....and I'm about to order the right nut for the clutch assembly. Laurie also pointed out that it has been vomitting oily muck from the muffler so I don't hold any great hopes for its longevity even if I can get it running right.

    It does run and does cut well on my mill, it's just that when bits stuff up, as they do regularly, I have to drive the thing three hours back home to get it fixed.

  9. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    South Bingera QLD Australia
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    614

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    I dont know if an 084 would be any good to you if so PM or look in the City, Coast & Country Trader - FREE advertising
    pm me I ll give you the number in the add

  10. #54
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    Sep 2008
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    Coffs Harbour
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    There is one error in your table, There is no such thing as 0.375" chain, 3/8 chain is 0.367", this is why my graph reports 367 data. I agree with your other calcs to about the 3rd figure.
    Bob just wondering how you came about that 0.367" figure? when 3 divided by 8 = 0.375 of an inch. Carlton other manufacturers designate it like that as well.
    regards inter

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by InterTD6 View Post
    Bob just wondering how you came about that 0.367" figure? when 3 divided by 8 = 0.375 of an inch. Carlton other manufacturers designate it like that as well.
    regards inter
    Me too.

  12. #56
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    Yes, that's what i thought when measuring up the 3/8" chains of my Stihl E15 and E220 saws. The alternative figure of .375 pops up on the web regularly, whereas i haven't found .367 yet. Bob, can you give any examples, please?

  13. #57
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    3/8 is just a nominal size. Go and measure 100 drive links of any 3/8 chain and do the gauge maths - it won't come out to 0.375" it comes out to 0.367. I didn't believe it either till I tried it myself.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    3/8 is just a nominal size. Go and measure 100 drive links of any 3/8 chain and do the gauge maths - it won't come out to 0.375" it comes out to 0.367. I didn't believe it either till I tried it myself.
    Velly hinteresting!
    You learn something every day.
    Hmm, I wonder why it ended up that way???

  15. #59
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    Sep 2009
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    warragul, victoria australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    3/8 is just a nominal size. Go and measure 100 drive links of any 3/8 chain and do the gauge maths - it won't come out to 0.375" it comes out to 0.367. I didn't believe it either till I tried it myself.
    how can you do the equation on 100 links???? the equation works on measuring 3 links and then dividing by 2. 100 doesn't divide into a whole number when divided by three hence the fact that you get 0.367 you would need to work on 102 drive links to give a number divisible by 3.

    102 divided by 3 equals 34 for those who cannot work it out. But as we all know chains stretch a bit during their life, so whether the initial is slightly less to allow for this stretch is something that the manufacturer may have worked in.
    I am told that sharpening handsaws is a dying art.... this must mean I am an artisan.

    Get your handsaws sharpened properly to the highest possible standard, the only way they should be done, BY HAND, BY ME!!! I only accept perfection in any saw I sharpen.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Edwards View Post
    how can you do the equation on 100 links???? the equation works on measuring 3 links and then dividing by 2.
    One can measure any number of links.

    From the Carlton Chain manual this is how I measure pitch.
    When measuring using one drive link it's the distance between 3 consecutive rivets divided by 2


    It can also be done with using as many rivets or drive links as one likes (the more rivets or drive links the more accurate the measurement is.

    Here's 10 consecutive drive links (21 rivets)

    That comes out to ~7 3/8" or 7.375"
    Now instead of dividing by 2 one divides by 20 = 0.369", this is about right for well used chain.
    Actually, now that I look at the zero mark, the ruler has moved and should be moved over a bit towards the right which will make it less than 0.369"

    When I measure new chain I get 0.367"

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