Help please!!!

[Softbreeze]

Hi all,

Took advantage of the wet weather today and had my first attempt at cutting some slabs from a little log. I think it is a type of oak tree? I used a borrowed alaskan mill Mk 3 on a Stihl 090 with a 20in bar. Chain is full chisel and brand new. It seemed to cut fine, but I have a few questions. The finish on the slabs are a bit rough. What do I have to do to improve this. I have put up some pics of the chain. Apart from changing the cutter angle, should I change anything else?

There is also a picture of the timber stacked afterwards. I used pine sticks between the sawn timber. Is this ok? How long should I leave it for, and what would happen if I tried to make something with the timber before it dried fully? I thinking of using it to make a outdoor bench seat.

All thoughts and advice and critisism greatly accepted.

Thanks
Mark

[glenn k]

A smaller angle on the cutters will make it pull less to the sides thus smother cuts.
If you are going to build out side seats why bother drying it at all?
Pine stickers can discolour the slabs if they get fungus in them.

[artme]

Nice timber!!

Agree with Glen on the pine sickers but I would let it dry for some time before use, even for outdoor use.

[pjt]

I'd say that finish is not too bad, yes not as good as it could be but could be a whole lot worse, I'd let it dry stacked as you have it there in the shed, if you where to use it green you would need to give a lot of consideration to how the timber will move/shrink/cup/twist as it dries, which is different for slabs with differing grain orientation (flatsawn/quartersawn/rift)

Pete

[BobL]

It also looks like you're using full chisel chain - (as well as going blunt quicker) full chisel always gives a rougher cut. At least one of those cutters in the photo has lost its tip - you were probably just cutting with the brute force of the 090. Long term that will bugger the chain and bar.

As well as a reduced top plate angle, a 3/8 semichisel type cutter will produce a smoother cut and not go blunt so quickly. Also put the log on a slope and don't push the saw - let it cut almost under it's own weight - it will take a minute or two longer to cut each slab but the improved finish will quickly save that time during any subsequent finishing.

[Softbreeze]

So Bob you would suggest I get rid of the chain and bar I got and go back to 3/8, semi chisel? I am hoping to get a longer bar soon, so it is easily done. When you say put it on a slope, do you find that it is hard to balance the saw. It seemed to need me to hold up the motor side of things when cutting to keep it balanced, or will this be rectified if i fit a longer bar?

To get the timber dry it needs to sit for a couple of years, is that correct?

Yes your right Bob the chain does need a sharpen, but I was a bit worried that once I sharpened it it wouldn't cut as well, ie straight.

[bobsreturn2003]

I would suggest just get a semi chisel chain for the 20in bar , check the tension is right ,snaps back to the bar , for the 090 i would run 404 ,as its a gutsy saw , and will pull a big bar . i had a 5ft bar on one years ago and it was unstopable , bloody heavy too . season the timber under cover use some endseal or paint on the ends ,and try and remove bark . looks good cheers Bob

[BobL]

So Bob you would suggest I get rid of the chain and bar I got and go back to 3/8, semi chisel?

I would just try a loop of semi-chisel for the 20" bar and set the top plate filing angle to ~10º. As bobsreturn says you'd have to go gentle with the 090 and 3/8 chain although guys in the USA that know what they are doing are running 0.325 chain on 084 and I run 3/8 on my 880 and 076. The thing with all these machines is not to go "bull at a gate" with them - treat them gently, keep the chain real sharp and the rakers set properly (Do you know about progressive raker setting?), make sure the bar is regularly dressed and groove is clean. Then feed the saw gently into the wood. You should not need to push very hard or if the log is on a slope you should not even have to push at all - see picture below.

I am hoping to get a longer bar soon, so it is easily done.

Sure is you just need lotsa $$.

When you say put it on a slope, do you find that it is hard to balance the saw. It seemed to need me to hold up the motor side of things when cutting to keep it balanced, or will this be rectified if i fit a longer bar?

Longer bar helps but the chain should be aggressive enough to hold the saw up against the log. Have a look in these picture and you will see the saw is slightly angled across the log - this also helps keep the saw up against the log.

If everything is in tune then you should be able to do this.

Note that I use log rails for every cut and the bottom of the mill rails are lined with high density polyethylene (hard white plastic) - this makes it much for the mill to slide down the log and generates a smoother finish and enables any possible twist to be removed from every slab.

To get the timber dry it needs to sit for a couple of years, is that correct?

A general rule is 1 year per inch of thickness.

Yes your right Bob the chain does need a sharpen, but I was a bit worried that once I sharpened it it wouldn't cut as well, ie straight.

It's more likely to cut crooked when it is blunt. I start with sharp chain and touch up the chain after every slab or every 32 sq ft. This takes a lot of load off the saw and provides the sm.

I presume you have richened up the carby (ie dropped the max revs by 300 - 500 rpm)? This will also help look after the saw.

[nifty]

Still my favourite photo on the forum that one

[hybridfiat]

How do you sharpen your chain? Electric or jig and file?
A good jig is essencial for a straight cut if you are doing slabs. I used an electric sharpener for years to touch up and could never quite get the angles consistant resulting in deviation of the blade.

[Travis Edwards]

Don't know if you see what I do bobL but it looks like the tops of the rakers have been filed way too low as well which would not be helping with the rough cutting. if that is a new chain I would be surprised. as a crosscutting chain I would expect that chain to take one heck of a bite, almost enough to throw you over the handlebars...lol

I agree with what bob says semichisel, Do not bother changing the top plate angle before you start but if you feel it is necessary do it progressively over a few sharpens.I have had semichisel skip produce more than satisfactory finish straight off the bat with a 30 degree top plate, better than what was in the first pic by quite a bit anyway. Oh and go easy on your rakers they are your friend.

And in answer to hybrid fiat file is how I sharpen unless a chain has been damaged badly and needs to be ground. I do it all freehand but there are some good file guides available out there, of which bobl will tell the better ones.

[hybridfiat]

"And in answer to hybrid fiat file is how I sharpen unless a chain has been damaged badly and needs to be ground. I do it all freehand but there are some good file guides available out there, of which bobl will tell the better ones."

I envy anyone who have the skill to sharpen drill bits and or chains by eye. Ive always had to rely on a jig to get a good result.

[Travis Edwards]

"And in answer to hybrid fiat file is how I sharpen unless a chain has been damaged badly and needs to be ground. I do it all freehand but there are some good file guides available out there, of which bobl will tell the better ones."

I envy anyone who have the skill to sharpen drill bits and or chains by eye. Ive always had to rely on a jig to get a good result.

I do both, They bought a drill doctor at work, no-one uses it and everyone gets me to sharpen them, cause they work better. when you have sharpened as many as I have it becomes second nature and you just know when they aren't right before you even look at them. In what I do you have to be able to sharpen a drill quickly and many tomes a day, it was the same when I was using a saw every day you need to know how to keep it sharp.

[BobL]

Travis is on the ball there and putting it mildly, the three cutters and rakers in this picture are all dogs.


What looks like has happened is that the cutters have been badly filed (the one on the left even has a negative rake) so they do not have enough hook. Whoever filed the chain tried to compensate by dropping the rakers instead of fixing the hook.

Here is what Will Mallof's 090 Chain looks like on top - and what mine looks like on the bottom.

He uses full chisel because he's cutting in soft north american softwoods.

[Softbreeze]

I presume you have richened up the carby (ie dropped the max revs by 300 - 500 rpm)? This will also help look after the saw.

How do I do this?

How do you sharpen your chain? Electric or jig and file?
I use a hand held electric grinder, but find it hard to keep them even. What are the best jigs to use? And maybe you could explain "progressive raker setting" to me BobL

Don't know if you see what I do bobL but it looks like the tops of the rakers have been filed way too low as well

You got me Travis. It is a brand new chain but I took to the rakers before I started. Though it migh help spped up the cuts! But the cutters have never been sharpened. It is as I bought it, except for the rakers.
Thanks heaps, Mark