Tasmanian Boat building timber availability

[b.o.a.t.]

Pretty bleak way of looking at it perhaps, but as materials costs go up, labour
becomes a smaller percentage of the total cost of the finished item. Once that
occurs, the attraction of sending the materials (& jobs) off-shore for value-
adding *should* reduce. At least a little.

Perhaps we will see the reappearance of selective loggers such as the
Queenstown Bradshaw family, whose forest leases were in such good nick after
80 years that they were locked up as pristine world heritage.

Incidentally, when I lived in Queenie, it was shown to me that Huon Pine is -not-
a threatened species at all. It grows prolifically albeit slowly, but most trees are
ugly scrubby things that only the craft-wood people could use. Very few HP
trees are suitable for milling into boards of any worthwhile size.

[dopeydriver]

Bernt , lucky I didn't shoot my mouth off about pricing , because it is something I haven't thought of for a long time .
But my son wrote a book on Agroforestry in the 90's , and I helped him with his research then .It was important to lift the trees out of the shade/firewood category , to shade/sawlog category . It made the whole exercise worthwhile , with careful selection of varieties , and good management.
Yes , it is something you people in the industry should be discussing , you make a good point.
The thought of Tasmanian timbers being exported to China to be made in to furniture , then bought back here to be sold , now THAT needs to be stopped !.
The timbers need to go to people who are going to value add RIGHT HERE !.
Regards Rob J.

[dopeydriver]

AJ , how did the Bradshaws extract their logs , with bullock teams ?.
There are still some very good bullockies in Tassie , the Patron of the Australian Bullock Drivers League is a Tasmanian.
Regards Rob J.

[b.o.a.t.]

Once upon a time, I guess. Bullocks were about the only thing which could
move about the west coast until railways were built. Roads came much later..
(dredging this from conversations 22+ years ago so the numbers are a bit fuzzy)
Norm was the Bradshaw I spoke with most - he was born around 1940. He
only talked about tractors, winching logs out of the scrub & onto a truck.
Where gravity on slopes wasn't enough anyway. They had a loose network of
tracks into the hills north & south of the King River. Drag the log to the track,
rather than cut the track to the log...
Only took the good saw-logs - up to about 15-18in diameter. Anything bigger
than that in the west / south-west tends to have a rotten core, so the forest
giants are pretty much completely safe from the selective saw-logger. Saw a
bit of this core rot when clearing trees out of the Lake Burbury flood zone for
fire-wood. I understand good logs can be bigger than that in lower rainfall areas.

The Bradshaw mill is gone now - at the bottom of Lake Burbury, on the old
Hobart road alignment.

The tour guide on the old red boat at Arthur River is/was a bullocky in the
tourist off-season. A gold mine of info, & a passionate advocate of selective
logging.
cheers
AJ

[dopeydriver]

AJ , bullockies can take out big logs better than anything else (save perhaps a helicopter).
When I was in Tassie last with the bullockies , they were restricted to what they could take out , curtesy of Gunns.
But they were taking out very big logs off private land , that had been long dead , for firewood for the whole community.
But it was very selective logging , and they were very good at it.Then again , they had been doing it for over 60 years .
There is a much better feeling of co-operation around Nowra , in NSW.
The big timber mill there uses the local bullocky for selective logging , to get out that single turpentine log up on the hill , or some bridge timbers , their smaller selective logging jobs.
The bullocks would drag the logs down to a collection area , and the trucks and loader would pick them up there.
But you couldn't see where the bullocks had been. A green log debarked , as you know is very slippery , it would slide through the bush with ease.
They aren't fast , sure , but they get the job done with little or no damage to the bush.
I guess I've gone off on a tangent again , but it is possible to get logs out without cutting a swathe through the bush.
Regards Rob J.

[dopeydriver]

Well I fired off a couple of letters to Politicians , this is one response.


"Dear Rob

Thank you for your recent email regarding the Tasmanian Forest Agreement and its impact on the Tasmanian boat-building industry.

The Liberals’ don’t support the Tasmanian Forest Agreement, which involves cutting our forest industry, worth $1.4 billion per annum, in half, in exchange for just $120 million in compensation over 15 years. That’s $7 million per annum in exchange for $700 million in economic activity – absolute economic madness.

Our native forests are renewable, sustainable and support thousands of jobs and regional communities across Tasmania. It makes absolutely no sense to close all of our native forests and instead cover our productive farmland with thousands more hectares of plantation forest, purely for political purposes – as is being proposed through this disastrous process. And, of course, despite all this, there is no peace.

Specifically, in relation to the special species timber which is used to make wooden boats, Forestry Tasmania has modelled the Government’s plan to lock up 572,000 hectares of forest and found that it will be provide just 6,700 cubic metres of timber per annum – as against a required minimum of 12,500 cubic metres in order to satisfy demand.

In contrast, we have proposed our own, balanced 13-point forestry plan (available here) which secures and grows jobs in the forest sector while also allowing for improved environmental outcomes.

Modelling undertaken by Forestry Tasmania for the Statement of Principles process confirms that our plan is a viable way forward which protects and grows jobs, unlike the Government’s disastrous Agreement.

The Premier has no mandate for her disastrous proposal. She should either rip it up and work with us to grow the industry, as I have offered in writing to her; or if not, call an election and let the people have their say.

Once again, thanks for contacting me about this important issue.

Yours sincerely


Will Hodgman MP"

[HOOKED.UP]

My original thoughts still stand.

How do we get rid of the "GREEN" movement. ?
How do we get rid of the "World Heritage Areas". ?
How do we get rid of the "National Parks. ?

How do we free up the over 50% of Tasmania, which is already wasted. ?

The future needs timber, in all it,s forms, from eaucalypt, to minor species.

To lock up any forest in Tasmania is to create a "WASTE LAND".

I feel very strongly about my home being ruined by conservation instead of long term management.

The Only way Tassie can export is North.

Look at us on a map of the world if you think I am wrong.

Our only renewable export, which can be relied on for many hundreds of years to come, is timber.

We should also be concentrating on all aspects of value adding, right here in this state.

Paul.

[dopeydriver]

And I stick to my original comments Paul , Common Sense and management , promotion of the industries that value add , is the way to go.
I can sense the frustration , sort of banging your head against a brick wall , put up by someone who got it all wrong.
Rob J.

[HOOKED.UP]

Hi Rob.

I am responsible for several damaged brick walls.

I just cannot see why common sense argument, based on fact, not emotion, can prevail.

I only speak for Tasmania and more importantly my own little area, here in the South East, but from my observations, timber is our biggest and brightest furture.

This state simply does not have anything else to offer on a long term, sustainable and renewable resource.

Paul.

Off my soap box now.

[dopeydriver]

Paul , I'd say its what is MADE from that timber , which is your brightest future , which is what this thread is all about !.
Keeping those skills alive , and using every bit of timber to advantage.
Its also got to be remembered that Tassie grows and makes magnificent foods too , do you want those farming areas turned in to plantations ?.
Thats what has happened around here , and it has and will tear billions out of the local economy.
I'm all for appropriate plantations , particularly on land that is best put under trees , recharge areas and the like , but not turning top farmland in to plantations.
It tears the heart out of the local economy , and is an imposte on what is left of the local communities.
The owners are not local , here I think since the demise of the tax dodge MIS companies a Canadian company owns a lot of them .
Well , that was last month , anyway !.
But when that CFA call goes out , do any of the owners roll out ?.
Nope , its left to the locals , who despise the plantations anyway , to go and put the fires out.
Rob J.
Regards Rob J.

[wavedancer]

Rob you raise an interesting topic re plantations. In 1901 my Great Grand father walked up the Wilmot River (Tas) and opened up an area call Narrawah. When my father was born (on the farm) there was 11 farms in the area (all owned and worked by Lehmans). In 2001my father and I attended an auction in that same valley. Gunns timber were paying $1400 an acre (market value at the time was $900) so they could plant out plantations of blue gum.
after the auction we drove up through the valley (illegally of course even though my grand father had built the original road). At the top of the hill we found the remains of a close relations farm house (this is Tassy don't forget), where we got out and picked up a few artifacts. I could see the the tears in my fathers eyes as he said " gard boy I'm glad your grandfather can't see this".
As we were heading back to the ute a couple of blokes in bright green shirts appeared over a bit of a hill and demanded to know what our bussiness was and to put back the stuff we had picked up. My father (a police officer of some 35 years at Devonport) looked at me and said " @@@@ em keep walking boy".
The area I ramble about was not marginal farm land but good grazing and mixed cropping.
No one can blame the poor old farmers for grabbing the money and running.
So what I am trying to say is the green mongrels say don't log old growth make plantations, oh the farmers they'll be right they can pick up the dole.
Ian L

[dopeydriver]

We are going off on a tangent here , but what the heck.
When we looked to move down here , we actually looked at a lot of old farmhouses hived off from these plantations.
The slimey real estate agent was gloating how much commission he had made on the sales , yes , they paid a completely unrealistic price for the land , farmers couldn't compete with them.
I asked him what became of the old owners , he thought they might have gone to the Gold Coast , and bought a block of flats or something .
I asked him what became of the workers "dunno , got a job someplace else I 'spose".
Oh , and plantations forest don't burn !.
This agent could look me in the eye , and tell me plantations don't burn !.
I told him I've been in the CFA for over 30 years , so don't give me that s--t !.
The places were cheap , dirt cheap . The plantations invariably took the old dam , and they had the plantation way too close to structures.
And the plantation contractors regularly poisoned the native animals , and dumped agent orange everywhere , including along waterways.
We did buy down here , but a little ways from the plantations .
And I did my research back then , on how much the plantations took out of the local economy , its a staggering amount , the countryside was effectively depopulated.
And we are talking prime land , dairy and spud country.
And yet I've spend many years in areas that have people active in Landcare , and they are using plantations in areas that really needed them , and I fully support that.
It really needs government support , its good for the farms , the farmers , the district , the country.
It takes thought , and planning , and careful work.
But the results can be stunning , on many fronts.
Or , go to Yeomans Keyline , or Andrews type agriculture , where trees figure prominantly , but not as a great monocrop plantation .
Good management isn't hard , and it brings great results . Locking up forests , and planting great monocrop forests on farming land is just crazy.
Regards Rob J.

[dopeydriver]

OK , it seems the only politician that wants to talk to me is Will Hodgeman , and his advisor Ella Woods-Joyce , I've had a couple of posts from her , in the last she states "If we can be of any assistance to you, please don’t hesitate to stay in touch ".
There you are.
Rob J.

[dopeydriver]

A current news article.
The last bit is interesting.
"The CFMEU has told the Tasmanian government to stop dithering over the rollout of the $276 million forestry deal, as industry groups raise their concerns about protected native forest areas.
The forestry union was a signatory to the statement of principles, which formed the basis of the intergovernmental agreement (IGA) announced by Prime Minister Julia Gillard earlier this month.
The IGA, aimed at restructuring the ailing sector, includes $85 million to help struggling contractors and their families affected by the downturn, and $45 million to assist workers to leave the industry.
Tasmanian Premier Lara Giddings on Thursday said a probity auditor would decide whether any of the funding should be used to compensate timber company Gunns, who voluntarily withdrew from logging native forests last year.
Ms Giddings said the Gunns settlement - which now underpins the rest of the agreement - would take weeks to be reached.
CFMEU forestry division national president Jane Calvert called on the government to speed up the process.
"During the pre-ballot workplace meetings held around the state this week, the overwhelming message from members was tell the state and federal governments to just get on with it," Ms Calvert said.
"At this stage, it would be a wrong move for any political party to seek to derail the whole forest restructure process, but it would be indefensible for a government to do so because of political dithering".
Gunns, which remains in a trading halt, issued a statement to the ASX on Thursday saying the auditor process had created uncertainty for the company.
"Our position from the start was that we were happy to be party to the process and we have said from day one that we would stay the course til our employees, contractors and shareholders were fairly compensated," Gunns chairman Greg L'Estrange said in the statement.
The company pushed back the date of the release of its full year results until next Thursday, and says it expects to remain in a trading halt until then.
The IGA provides for the protection 430,000 hectares of high-conservation-value (HCV) forests in informal reserves and eventually national parks.
The government on Friday released a report from Jonathan West, which identified the areas of HCV forests to be protected.
In the report, Professor West found "there appears to be no administrative or legal impediment to the reserves being placed into immediate informal reserve".
He also found that Forestry Tasmania should be able to find the necessary 155,000 cubic metres of sawlogs to honour existing native forestry contracts.
But legislation to turn the informal reserves into national parks requires the backing of the state's independent-dominated Legislative Council, and several members have already voiced their intentions to vote against it.
Federal opposition spokesman Richard Colbeck said Professor West's report would undermine the specialty timbers industry.
"The areas he has selected for reserve contain almost all the areas where special timbers are," Senator Colbeck said.
"Under Professor West's direction, the Intergovernmental Agreement will decimate Tasmania's woodcraft sector".

[HOOKED.UP]

As to the farms to forestry plantation debate.

Yes it is very sad to see good land planted out to plantation timber.

But, if there is no one to take on these small holdings,I do understand how the land holders decide to lease the land and leave something for their families, as a long term investment.
There was a lot of controversy, here in Tas a few years ago about this very subject..

The bottom line is,tree farming is a legitimate , farming resource.

Sad as it is, Tassie, small farms have become pretty worthless. As far as a viable income is concerned.

As far as I am concerned, Bob Browne is the biggest traitor to Tasmania ever.

He rose to power on his dole bludger mates and has stayed there because of the emotional advertising he has been able to generate.

Paid for by the tax payer.

Christine Milne is no better. Only a single idea. Not worth the time of day..

We need forestry. Properly managed. Mindful of minor species for value adding.

My philosophy, is grow it, not waste it.

Tasmania has the ability to supply most of Australia's hard wood needs in the long term future.

Why are we wasting our states best renewable resource. ???

Paul.