Tasmanian Boat building timber availability

[bloggs1968]

Montgomery,

The IGA does state 12,500 cubic metres of special timbers - "subject to verification" . The 12,500 cubic metres came from an earlier special timbers strategy. Of the 12,500 cubes, 10,000 was to be Blackwood with the remaining 2,500 to include celery, sassafras, myrtle etc. This figure is not for sawn board but for logs, burls limbwood etc. I have been advised that this was to lead to approx 200 cubes of boat grade celery logs per year and when you convert this to sawn boards it comes back to approx 66 cubic metres per annum. My business alone uses approx 6 cubes of celery per annum
(increasing at approx 30% per year) and there are approx 80 boat building businesses in Tassie.

As celery top pine is the most used boat building timber in Tassie ( at 42% compared to Huon at 28%) and approx 55% of all special timbers cut are exported to the mainland you can see that there is a real issue here.

9% of our commercial fishing fleet and 14% of our recreational fleet of registered boats in Tasmania are timber.

There are over 8000 hobbyists in the state who play with timber as well and they provide a huge amount of flow on purchases to toher businesses such as hardware stores, specialist tool suppliers etc.

Quite frankly I am sick of having to scour the Saturday classifieds looking for some old diggers stash of timber that has been cut 25 years ago and is under his house. You cannot run a manufacturing business without resource security and this agreement does not provide ANY resource security for the down stream processing industry in Tasmania. Many busineesses here have tried to future proof themselves by stockpiling many years worth of timber which has a crushing effect on cashflow and capital available for expansion. Many businesses would expand if they had resource security.

The figure of 12,500 cubes is an arbitrary one based which is not based on industry demand ( which has never been quantified) and I am hoping and pushing for quantification during the verification process but I won't hold my breath. This is a deal more about political survival than anything else.

Nearly all of the areas set aside for special timber harvesting are contained within the 430,000 ha moratorium area and I sincerely doubt that any area with special timbers in it ( i.e. old growth forest) will not be deemed high Conservation Value forest by the verification committee (headed by an ex wilderness society fellow). If the final figure of just over 570,000 ha is locked up, we are staring down the barrel of a 90% reduction in special timber availability which would not just bust the boat building industry but many wood turners, furniture makers, instrument makers etc - not to mention all the businesses that we support like sail makers, marine engineers, paint shops, composite suppliers - the list goes onand the ripple effect is huge.

Most, if not all of our special timbers harvested to date has come out of arisings from eucalypt coupes. This has kept the pricing of the timber at a reasonable level (although I have seen a 60-70% increase inthe price of Celery over the last 5 years). With the reduction of eucalypt harvest from 300,000 cubes a year to 155,000 cubes per year we will also see a dramatic drop in special timbers harvested - particularly if they are re-growth coupes with little if any mature special timbers in them.

One submission to the Kelty report showed that many Victorian furniture makers would go to the wall with even modest increases (10-20%) of raw material prices. Manufacturing has a hard enough time in Australia competing against imports without being stiffed by our own.

The value adding industry in Tasmania adds 100's of millions of dollars to the states economy and yet they have really been left out of the deal.

In boat building, if we had to substitute a timber for celery we would be looking at timbers harvested overseas (most likely illegally) which doesn't make sense. With legislation to go before federal parliament banning illegal timber imports next year there will be an even higher demand/strain on our timber supply here. The frustrating thing for me is that there are more than enough special timbers here in Tasmania to be harvested on long term roations forever

I agree with your comments on the clear felling of coupes but there has been a good deal of education and realisation within the forest industry in the value of special timbers and we are now seeing more and more timber recovered that would have been left on the forest floor.

AD

[dopeydriver]

Well Montgomery , read AD's posts for one , he has been to all of the meetings , and discussions , and so far it has been for nought.The greenies have the whip hand.
What is really starting to distress me now is the private e-mails from Tasmanians who dearly love their state , and who are getting out , and their kids are getting out.
Its breaking their heart , but the greens , by their lies and BS are absolutely screwing the place.
We had that absolutely ill informed lunacy here in Victoria prior to Black Saturday , and it cost many Victorians their lives in Black Saturday .
The Labor Government were warned about it time and again by the experts , they were warned what was going to happen in letters to the ministers , and Premier , but they were scared of the greenies , and didn't act.
Until after the Bushfire Royal Commission gave them the courage to overide the greens.
Labor after the Commision findings , and before their electoral defeat put in to place common sense measures to protect the state and its people as much as possible from fire , and the crazy excesses of the recent past.
And the Liberals have held that line since the election.
But I know you have heard all of this before , on another forum .
Saying that the agreement is weak and will have to be renegotiated some time in the future is silly , frankly , how can a state run on that sort of legislation ?.
How can a business , any business , make plans for the future ?.
As to tourism being the saviour of Tasmania , well frankly , I don't believe it.
I'd suggest if they were able to hold the current numbers , they will be doing very well , in the current economic climate.
I will be going down to Tasmania with my wife , children and grandchildren for my sons wedding , and his bride to be will obviously be bringing her family as well.
I'm now so disgusted , and disappointed with this whole affair , if I had a choice I'd call off the Tasmanian wedding , and have it in Victoria . It would save a lot of money !.
As AD has pointed out , the Tasmanian Greens have no idea what they are talking about.
They have told AD that he can use plantations timbers !!!! gawd !.
And turning the place in to a huge treed monocrop means depopulating , as has happened here , it has ripped the heart out of the local economy , and the local communities.
Somewhere here I have the figures for just how much , in monetary terms , went out of the local economy , and how much in quantative terms , was not produced for the food market , when this area was bought out and planted to monocrop tree plantations.
Back to the people.
Tasmanians mostly did not vote for a greenie government in their state , or federally , but thats what they have got . This small minority , have found themselves in a position that allows them to screw their senior partner (who wants to stay in power at any cost) , and turn the government greenie.
Is it any wonder , that for many its "the straw that broke the camels back" , and they are packing up and leaving the island they love.
The biggest money spinner at the moment , the biggest industry in Tasmania , is real-estate , the buying and SELLING of property.
I'd say AD , and other business people directly affected by this "agreement" have made their position abundantly clear , many times , and its now time for the greens to pull their heads in a bit , yield to common sense , and get REAL jobs happening in Tasmania , and obviously in their iconic industries , like boat building in their own timbers , and furniture making.
Shutting the place down , trying to make it a tourist mecca is counter productive , and degrading.Tasmania has a lot more to offer than that.
Anyway , I'm sorry , I don't hold out much hope . I've got the feeling that my visit in November will be my last to Tasmania.
Gee , lucky I didn't move there 10 or so years ago , like we tried to , I'd really be jumping up and down now !.
Rob J.

[Horus28]

Yes I know about the 1967 fires another is overdue. I am in Canberra what happened here was a forty year build up of fuel and finally in particularly dry times lightening! After that it went on to the Snowy and burnt out 3 million hectares. These days central approval is needed for fuel reduction and clearing, this does not work any fire expert will tell you that. I must give credit to the Greens they have managed to get their way by effective political manipulation. What they want will be disasterous but seems most likely they will get their way. Is it possible to import suitable wood? I think your government will not be sympathetic to anything else. C

Horus , Tasmania has had its own horrific bushfires over the years . 1967 Tasmanian fires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
I had just started work in an insurance company with many Tasmanian clients when this fire started .
We had to work overtime sending out letters to people who were a day or 2 behind with their payments etc , advising them that their insurance had lapsed.
I quit !.
But you are right , forests require management .
Management means a local population , not the least to provide a fire fighting service.
Its just common sense , really.
Regards Rob J.

[dopeydriver]

Well Horus , here in Victoria what was said to be "impossible" last year , is happening this year , as to controlled burns.
All it took was an election !.
I was in the Canberra area just before the fires , staying with an old time bullocky mate on his property.
We spent a long time discussing fuel loads , and the lack of action.
What he said would happen did , exactly !.
Where I am now , they don't muck about . They have been here for generations , and know what to expect .
Yes , there will always be fires , the last was 3 years ago , and went right down my eastern boundary .
But good management meant that the damage was minimal.
As to timbers , I think AD has answered that very well , its an area he certains knows.
Regards Rob J.

[dopeydriver]

Well , my question post 1 has been answered I guess.
I'm bailing out of this discussion , its too depressing .
Rob J.

[johnnyroberts]

Rob you have an uncanny knack of remiding me of my mistakes. Back in the 80,s I bought 25 acres at Castra (back of Ulvertone) 50/50 pasture and regrowth. It bordered onto the 3000 acre Nieta forest and back then people would say "you have just bought 3025 acres. I had approval to plant it all out 50/50 "nitens" and blackwood. I can't remember the exact reason why the subsidys went pear shape but I never planted.
These days if you buy land beside a state forest or national park in tassy you are just making a donation to the mongrel green government.
Still can't spilll
Ian L

Not too sure about making a donation, I own 40 acres next to a state forest, I selectively log and mill timber with my lucas mill, rack and dry and then machine the timber. There is nothing written anywhere that says you can't do this.
You can still plant monocrop plantations and receive a 100 percent tax rebate for all infrastructure and planting costs.

[Montgomery]

Well said Bloggs1968 (27 August) and thanks for the great reponse! I don't need convincing and, fortunately, I've never heard anyone in Tasmania say they want the boat building industry to fall over. With input like yours, let's hope commonsense will prevail. I've been aware of concerns in the community about special timbers for perhaps the last twenty years, maybe longer. Haven't heard the term "arisings" previously, but assume it means, in the main, salvage after clearfelling. Seems like a risk that the industry has to rely on arisings. Anyway, do you think celery top pine and other special timbers have adequately regenerated in the areas clearfelled over the last twenty years? The environmentalists' concern seems to be that the timber industry still relies on converting high conservation value old growth into production forest, which can't go on forever. Lastly, I encourage interstate blog readers to come to Hobart for the next Australian Wooden Boat Festival in 2013 (a truly amazing event) or sooner to visit the Maritime Museum and Wooden Boat Centre at Franklin. Tasmania has a rich maritime history that we love to share. Keep up the good work Bloggs1968 and best wishes for your business!

[KevM]

Haven't heard the term "arisings" previously, but assume it means, in the main, salvage after clearfelling. Seems like a risk that the industry has to rely on arisings.

No, it does not mean salvage after clearfelling.

Arisings in this context means logs which would not be normally be available or accessible unless the area was was logged for other reasons i.e. to obtain eucalypt sawlogs and chip logs. It is this logging that pays the greatest majority of the roading and harvesting costs and make the recovery of the special species timbers economic for our boat builders, furniture makers and other craftsmen.

[Bernt]

AD,
Regarding the figures you mention in your 27 aug post. They seem very worrying and I agree that to run your business at it's full potential you should not have to worry about availability of these timbers. However, doesn't the scarcity of these timbers play a huge role in the value and appreciation of tasmanian wooden boats? Also what I don't hear in any of these figures: what would be a sustainable quantity of those timbers to make sure not only the approx. 80 boat builders have access to timber now, but also in a few decades? 66 cubic meters might be to little for the industry, it might still be to much to ensure a future supply. The question Montgomery asks about how the regeneration is going, I also am curious about. The locking up of those coupes might not be the answer for our specialty timber industry, we do need to make sure those areas get set aside for specialty timbers. If they get harvested for eucalypt logging, sure we do get some good boatbuilding timber out of it at the moment as a byproduct, but are we wasting the future specialty timbers in the process? If good CTP logs are 400 year old, we need to make sure the ones now at 150 years will keep standing where they are for an other 250 years. As I said before, this might just be a necessary step towards selective logging. Bernt

[johnnyroberts]

I got this today.
Check out the bottom bit !.

"Hi Robert

Senator Colebeck has just issued the attached release and I thought it may be of interest to you.

You may also be interested to know that Will and many of the Liberal team attended the rallies in Hobart and Smithton in support of the industry on the weekend.

Regards,

Ella Woods-Joyce, Adviser
Leader of the Opposition, Hon Will Hodgman MP
T 03 6233 8715|F 03 6233 2779|M 0418 338 774
Parliament House|Hobart| "

SENATOR THE HON RICHARD COLBECK

Senator for Tasmania

Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Fisheries and Forestry
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Innovation, Industry and Science

M E D I A R E L E A S E

25 August 2011

Forest deal sinks Tasmanian wooden boat building

The future of Tasmania’s valuable wooden boat building industry is directly threatened by the Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) on future use of Tasmania’s forests.

“Locking up the remaining sources of timber used by Tasmania’s wooden boat builders will destroy what is currently a very valuable, viable and iconic industry,” Coalition Forestry Spokesman Senator Richard Colbeck said.

“Details of the sham agreement are spreading far and wide and I am now being contacted by boat builders who fear Tasmania’s wooden boat building industry will be ruined.

“Discussion on the impending disaster for the sector has global reach through industry blogs.

“Despite the fact that 90 per cent of two key iconic species, Celery Top Pine and King Bill Pine, are already in reserves the Greens are still not satisfied.

“More than 70 per cent of remaining sources of these timbers are in the 430,000 hectares rubber stamped by former Wilderness Society director Jonathan West in his flimsy advice accepted by the Prime Minister and the Premier last week.

“And 94 per cent of remaining sources are in the 572,000 hectares that the environment groups claim as High Conservation Value.

“The wooden boat industry has an estimated annual value of $50 million but without a timber supply it has no future.

“Destroying Tasmania’s wooden boat building industry also undermines the legitimacy of hosting the highly successful Australian Wooden Boat Festival in Hobart, which is one of the largest festivals of its type in the world.

“This festival began in 1994 and attracted 100,000 people last year. Given building these boats can take up to 12 months, providing significant employment opportunities for master craftsmen, the significance of the economic contribution of wooden boats is clear.

“What will it mean for this internationally-recognised event if Tasmania’s iconic wooden boat building industry is destroyed?

“The Greens tell us tourism is the future for Tasmania but its own greedy and clumsy policy seeks to lock the tourism industry out of areas currently open and it also threatens to impact major tourist events like the Wooden Boat Festival.

Tasmanian woodwork blog:
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f34/tasmanian-boat-building-timber-availability-139466/
<<250811 Forest deal sinks Tasmanian wooden boat building.pdf>>
ENDS_

Laura Richardson
Electorate Officer

Office of Senator Richard Colbeck
Senator for Tasmania | Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Fisheries & Forestry
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Innovation, Industry and Science
5-7 Best Street, Devonport 7310 - Tasmania
( 03 6424 5960 | 6 03 6423 5244 |

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER
The information in this transmission may be confidential and/or protected by legal professional privilege, and is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. If you are not such a person, you are warned that any disclosure, copying or dissemination of the information is unauthorised. If you have received the transmission in error, please immediately contact this office by telephone, fax or email, to inform us of the error and to enable arrangements to be made for the destruction of the transmission, or its return at our cost. No liability is accepted for any unauthorised use of the information contained in this transmission. If the transmission contains advice, the advice is based on instructions in relation to, and is provided to the addressee in connection with, the matter mentioned above. Responsibility is not accepted for reliance upon it by any other person or for any other purpose.

Lots of words but they dont have an alternative, pathetic really

[dopeydriver]

Unable to sleep , I've checked out this thread , again.
JR , post number 2 in this thread is by AD , and he spelt out the setup that FT had in place , last year.
From what I read , that was working fairly well , and gave a sustainable supply of logs , well in to the future.
Anyway , I said I'm out of this thread , so I'd better do as I said I'd do.
Rob J.

[bloggs1968]

Rob,

The Special Timbers Strategy put in place was a good start. The trouble we face with this though is that the resource demand of the Special Timbers value adding industry has never been quantified. The Woodcraft Study in 2009 was a start but it fell well short of getting all the info together.

As mentioned previously, under the IGA there is funding for the verification process and I am pushing for using some of this to quantify industry demand for special timbers. The ENGO's are using mill sales to show demand but as anyone knows in Tassie this in no way reflects the amount of timber used in a year. In any year, businesses here use timber from the following sources;

1. purchases from sawmills
2. purchases from private sellers
3. your own business stockpile of special timbers
4. scavenge logs and mill your own

Industry (and hobbyist demand) needs to be quantified before any decison is made on what is enough timber. The 12,500 cubes in the Special Timbers Strategy may well be enough but it may also be far short of what we need not only now but in the future as demand grows. If we lock ourselves in at this figure without the demand research then we are taking a huge risk that it is the wrong amount.

Verification of the amount used is a simple process and would take around 6-8weeks with some advertising and a basic pro-forma sent out to users of special timbers.

If the answers come back and show the usage levels are well below what will come of this process then we are sitting pretty and know that there is room for expansion. If the figures come in at or well above what timber is available as a result of this agreement then an adjustment must be made so that a major industry is not decimated.

It doesn't matter what side of politics people are from this is a rational, fact based approach to this issue and it should be welcomed by all sides. The Greens say they are for value adding of timber here so they should support this.

On another note, Tasmania released their new economic plan for the future the other day. A quick scroll through shows not one picture of a tree, forestry, woodcraft products etc. The only time forestry is mentioned is in the context of restructuring. It is almost like we don't exist. Out of sight out of mind???

AD

[Bernt]

I think to research demand of special timbers will be a very interesting exercise, it will be very useful for future planning of supply of these species. However the quantity made available can't depend of it, that will just have to match the amount that can be sustainably harvested. The demand of it is probably unrealistic high at the moment since price is unrealistic low. When these timbers get to a price that matches it's value, then you can measure what the demand is. Then suddenly Silver Wattle and Golden Sassy will be interesting for furniture makers and builders. Then you won't see Celery floorboards and cladding just like now you don't see mahogany or teak flooring. I think we can still get what we need as long as we are willing to pay for it. Maybe your customers will only be able to afford a boat 2ft shorter, you should still be building.
I suppose since I did not grow up in Australia, I was never used to an unlimited supply of timber. At the boatbuilder I worked at in the Netherlands it was a big deal if we got a big slab of mahogany in or a green log of teak. We spent days making sure it was stored in perfect conditions, it was treated like gold and it was a big investment for the company. The availability we are used to here is a real luxury.

[dopeydriver]

Even more depressing !.
"The Prime Minister has described the intergovernmental forest agreement and the carbon tax as putting Tasmania at the centre of a "tremendous" moment in history.
The Federal and State Governments yesterday signed a Memorandum of Understanding to provide $120 million in Commonwealth funding under the forest agreement.
About $20 million will flow immediately to support displaced forest workers.
Speaking to representatives from Regional Development Australia in Hobart, Ms Gillard said the state had significant green energy potential.
"This discussion is actually at a tremendous time not only to feed in and understand the clean energy future but to feed in and understand how that clean energy future can intersect with the regional development and economic diversification we will be supporting," Ms Gillard said.
The Prime Minister said Tasmania's use of hydro electric power and its climate gave it a natural advantage.
"You're got abundant sunshine and the capacity to use wind power as well," Ms Gillard said.
"Natural advantages because you've already brought to the marketplace a reputation for being clean and green."
If you can get anything positive out of this , you are doing better than me.
This is the sort of stuff I compost !.
Rob J.

[johnnyroberts]

Even more depressing !.
"The Prime Minister has described the intergovernmental forest agreement and the carbon tax as putting Tasmania at the centre of a "tremendous" moment in history.
The Federal and State Governments yesterday signed a Memorandum of Understanding to provide $120 million in Commonwealth funding under the forest agreement.
About $20 million will flow immediately to support displaced forest workers.
Speaking to representatives from Regional Development Australia in Hobart, Ms Gillard said the state had significant green energy potential.
"This discussion is actually at a tremendous time not only to feed in and understand the clean energy future but to feed in and understand how that clean energy future can intersect with the regional development and economic diversification we will be supporting," Ms Gillard said.
The Prime Minister said Tasmania's use of hydro electric power and its climate gave it a natural advantage.
"You're got abundant sunshine and the capacity to use wind power as well," Ms Gillard said.
"Natural advantages because you've already brought to the marketplace a reputation for being clean and green."
If you can get anything positive out of this , you are doing better than me.
This is the sort of stuff I compost !.
Rob J.

I agree Rob, compost that is. I wonder if she actually believes what comes out of her mouth