For those that missed this.

[RETIRED]

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f12/sh...survey-140203/

[issatree]

Yes, I did the Survey.
I voted, that it should be a Personal Choice.

Then what about the Blind Woodworker Using that Saw in that UTube Video.

He was the most confident Woodie, I think I have ever seen.

So, should he have the Saw Stop? It is still a Personal Choice.

[Cliff Rogers]

Done.

[specialist]

done.

[Barrie Restall]

I saw the saw stop demonstrated and the guy used a sausage, not his finger, to demonstrate the action. This makes me suspicious. Ok it works fine for sausages but I dont use a sausage on my table saw.

When someone demonstrates with their own flesh I will take it seriously; Why do they lack confidence in their gear? Are they, wussess?

The price is ridiculous, and sausages aint cheap either.

Barrie Restall

[Astrodog]

There is a video around of the (?) inventor touching the spinning blade. But he touches it much slower with his finger (who could blame him!) than the sausage.... I have no doubt the sawstop would dramatically reduce any injury from a man vs blade incident, much like a car air-bag.
Good technique and a healthy respect for the machine should prevent it ever being needed though.
I just bought a 10HB, if I had the spare extra cash I would have thought more about the sawstop, not only because of the brake mechanism, it seems a bloody well made piece of equipment to boot....

[BobL]

I saw the saw stop demonstrated and the guy used a sausage, not his finger, to demonstrate the action. This makes me suspicious. Ok it works fine for sausages but I dont use a sausage on my table saw.

When someone demonstrates with their own flesh I will take it seriously; Why do they lack confidence in their gear? Are they, wussess?

The price is ridiculous, and sausages aint cheap either.

Barrie Restall

Well you'd better start taking it seriously then because the inventor has demonstrated it on himself and there is a video of it out there on the web.

I won't be taking it quite as seriously as some others do because I want to see more tests. One I would like to see is a demonstration whereby something like a pig knuckle is dropped or flicked rapidly onto the turning blade. Quite a few machine lacerations happen when an operator forces the situation and then slips and their hand accelerates onto the blade. Even if the blade was stationary there will be some (hopefully relatively minor) trauma. A hot dog won't work because it will almost certainly split in half if it is flicked or thrown onto a blade.

This is a really important test to do because otherwise some sawstop users might think they are safe under any circumstance and will do more stupid things than they otherwise would.

[Barrie Restall]

Ok I found the vid of the inventor using his finger, its impresive up to a point. But I agree with you BobL, the test you describe is the critical one.

However as Old dog says "Good technique and a healthy respect for the machine should prevent it ever being needed though."

That is any machine; I have other fast moving cutting things beside my table saw (jointer, thicknesser, router, drop saw, various sanders etc). You need good working habits to remain in one piece.

Barrie Restall

[BobL]

I have posted this table before but I couldn't find it on the forum so I post it again. This comes from this document - http://www.iccwa.org.au/wp-content/u...ury-report.pdf .

It is for Victorian DYI accidents only - the report has more data in it, including some for QLD.


The first thing that one sees is how common injuries are with grinders but only ~7% of people injured by grinders end up being admitted into hospital whereas ~86% of people injured by a power saw are admitted. Most of the power saws on the list are portable saws - it would be interesting to know exactly how many are TS.

Note also how many were hospitalized by a hand saw injuries, and the humble nail and hammer??

Here is some data for a wider range of power tools over a different time period than listed above. (from http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/VISU/hazard/haz52.pdf)


It's probably just an access factor but more people are injured by nonpowered compared to power tools but only 1/3 of nonpowered injuries are hospitalized.

Routers are slightly worse than power saws, in terms of % admitted to hospital following injury, but the sheer number of power saw injuries admitted are much higher.

Note also the proportion of Chain saw (CS) injuries admitted. CS are potentially very nasty (kickback, leg and foot injuries etc) and were at one stage proportionately the number one power tool which required hopitalization but following the start of a very concerted safety campaign in the 1990s to promote proper use of CS, and the use of chaps and helmets, the number of injuries and admittances has decreased.

[Astrodog]

I would agree with these, having worked in emergency depts over the years at times; I've seen a lot more injuries from drills/grinders/lawnmowers/ladders than saws of any kind. And to put in perspective, the number of injuries from car accidents would dwarf them all (easily).

[Barrie Restall]

Having read all this I wouldnt spend the extra to fit a saw stop. It is a good idea way over price. I might be convinced that there is a place for it in schools and institutions teaching woodwork as good work practices would also be taught (hopefully).

Meanwhile I am not going near any powered saw until I can count the teeth. And I will continue to treat all the other tools, power or hand, with the respect they warrant.

Barrie Restall

[BobL]

I would agree with these, having worked in emergency depts over the years at times; I've seen a lot more injuries from drills/grinders/lawnmowers/ladders than saws of any kind. And to put in perspective, the number of injuries from car accidents would dwarf them all (easily).

Even though I tend to using it myself ( ) I don't think bringing up another a greater risk should be used as a reason not to do something to mitigate other risks.

Risks from something like car accidents should be looked at in relation to period of use. There are ~6000 hospital admissions per year in Vic due to motor vehicle accidents so over 5 years that is 30000 people but how many hours a day do people spend in cars? The individual use of a TS is usually less than 30 seconds per cut and I'd be surprised if a DIY woodworker does on average more than dozen cuts per week or 3 minutes per week versus 5- hours a week. My guess is the relative exposure risks probably come out about the same - that would indeed surprise many drivers.

Risks should be seen in perspective and the biggest most serious tackled first but that does not mean doing nothing about the others. The fact that powersaws represent in total the second most cause of 86% of reported powersaw injuries end up in hospitalisation looks pretty bad to me and suggests something should be done about it.

What we don't know is what fraction of these are Table Saw, bandsaw, or portable saw injuries. My guess is that TS users represents a relatively small number of

Anyway - back to the stats themselves, it seems like we need a ladderstop more than a sawstop.

[munruben]

Done

[PaintMan]

I have also seen a new alternative development called the "whirlwind) see at Whirlwind Tool Patents Pending Saw Safety Technology Available for Assignment/License. This was developed in the USA by David Butler and has been discussed in the Sept.issue of Fine Woodworking magazine. This new technology is claimed to stop the blade in 1/8 of a second using sensors contained in the saw guard and has the ability to be fitted easily to any saw. It will be interesting to see how it develops.