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1st December 2011, 08:14 AM #31
We're all looking forward to the Ern review.........being a published author does carry a bit of weight
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1st December 2011, 09:45 AM #32Hewer of wood
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Erk.
Happy to provide impressions.
Blind controlled trials are not on the agenda
(Though what I should've done is keep a notebook over the years of trying various methods. As Stu has said, it's not just the stone but the interaction of stone type with metal type and application. Lots of variables!).Cheers, Ern
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1st December 2011, 09:11 PM #33Intermediate Member
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Well lucky you mentioned that, I was about to pull the trigger on the magic 400 stone for that very purpose. Ooops.
What would you say is the equivalent of this stone that has caused so much excitement and anticipation for knife sharpening purposes? Does the new stone even have a non-tool equivalent?
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1st December 2011, 10:26 PM #34
Hi Jone5y,
I wouldn't say the Sigma #400 is going to be a bad knife stone, but it is, I think, a tad 'sharp' whereas the 'other' #400 (more for knives) is like butter. Beautifully smooth and consistent.
I'm not a knife junky by any means, but I can tell you my solid gyuto has a Sigma #400 finish on the sides, and it's the best I've ever had. Food just doesn't stick to it. But as I said, I'm no knife authority so whether it's really suitable I can't say.
But the 'other', wow. I can't sell it to you though, it's the only one in existence for the immediate future.
Perhaps a knife stone that has likely caused even more excitement is the Gesshin #400. I've not tried this stone at all, but the knife folks think it's something pretty special. Until I either get my hands on one of them or someone who has both says something to me, there's no way I could make any judgement call on a comparison.
The thing is, the Gesshin apparently leaves a nice finish, whereas the Sigma just cuts. On that score alone, where folks are looking for something they can use and not have to fiddle with afterwards as in the case on a knife, then the Gesshin is probably the better bet.
(Until I manage to coax the GC #400 out of Sigma. Then there might be fireworks, because it's just so smooth, yet still a proper #400 stone. Sounds odd I suppose, but it is what it is.)
The Sigma #400 is only at it's special price for a few more hours, and that special won't be extended. I've sent out so many of them at that price, it's actually starting to cost me money now in time spent for very little return...
Stu.
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2nd December 2011, 06:36 PM #35Hewer of wood
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Re the Sigma, I promised first impressions.
But first to shipping times. Stu posted it on 26/11 and it arrived today, 2/12. Nice work SAL.
As to use, most of my time is spent rehabbing and in that lapping is the big time consumer.
With chisels, that means no cheats with back bevels and of necessity a flat back up to 30mm or so from the edge. That's so polishing on a finer stone can be done.
First try-out was a 1" Titan firmer; it'd been lapped but pitting had occurred since without my permission The Titans are pretty hard steel and the Sigma #400 dealt with it in about 30 seconds.
So time to get serious.
Second try-out was an old Broford (sp?) of Plymouth 3/4" firmer that'd also been through a lapping process. The corners had been dubbed over by Messrs Wet and Dry (beknighted?). It's also hard steel. About 5 mins of work revealed good progress but a heavier gun was needed to speed things up so I stepped down to a #120 Shapton, and then returned to the Sigma. Another 15 mins or so and it was done.
On the basis of this limited test, the Sigma appears to cut consistently and well; it's slow to load up; it's not that fussy about water.
Downside, barely, is that it needed flattening for any further lapping work; a by-product of just working the 25-30mm from the edge of the chisels. Also because there's a bit of clogging.
But in short, it's a keeper.Cheers, Ern
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3rd December 2011, 02:08 AM #36
No news to me, but it's always good to know I'm not seeing through rose tinted glasses.
Thanks Ern, means a heck of a lot.
Stu.
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11th December 2011, 10:10 PM #37Rank Beginner
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I also got my hands on the new stone for an hour today.
Doesn't arrive very flat; the whole thing was bent like a banana, albeit very slightly.
A bit of work with SiC grit on glass fixed that problem. It's slow work to flatten, but also dishes slowly - the very opposite of my Kings.
Got started on an iron for an old US no.8 jointer, and was pleasantly surprised by the cutting speed - even with almost no pressure the steel just seems to happily float away. Not as fast as the Sigma 120, unsurprisingly, but altogether more... effortless, for want of a better word. Plus, leaves a remarkably fine finish. Very curious.
What pleased me most is that, after the stone loads up, a small squeeze of water and it's back to normal! No glazing and barely any clogging. Quite a wonderful experience after the accursed / beloved 120.
Went out of flat a little quicker than anticipated, but it's too early for me to properly judge the matter.
I'll leave a proper review to someone with far more experience with sharpening stones than I; I dont have enough experience with similar stones to contribute anything useful.
Still, at this stage, I'll say that I'm very impressed with this stone. It's great for flattening backs, and also for the occasional secondary bevels where my 1000 King struggles on its own, such as with the bigger Titans and a Hock O2 jointer iron.
Look forward to hearing more about what you guys think of it.Cheers,
Eddie
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12th December 2011, 03:43 PM #38Hewer of wood
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Yeah, mine was slightly bowed, and not quite flat across: a bit of drop-off at the edges.
Not been a prob. with lapping chisels so far.
This morning groeneaj and I had a session rehabbing a sorry looking firmer as his lesson test mule. Got some proper clogging: due either to the softer steel of the mule or my not paying enough attention to water control, or both.
So by now flattening was needed. An Atoma #400 diamond plate from Stu was laid in for this and it took a bit of time but did the job. And you'd expect this since the rated grits matched. The Atoma goes across finer grit stones like a cheese grater across young cheddar.Cheers, Ern
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27th December 2011, 11:07 AM #39GOLD MEMBER
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For all of my wood carving tools, I rarely ever have to use a 1k water stone.
If I need a stone at all, 4K is fine. Regular stropping (every 20-30 minutes) does the job.
Just got a KING 4k for Christmas. This is the secret grit size in the Porche recommended stone for the 301 kitchen knives. The secret edge bevel is 20 degrees, total.
However: if and when I hit a sand grain with a $70 gouge, I have had to joint the entire edge with a 600 oil stone. If there was any more profanity, I would not need oil on the stone. Then 1K then 4K then stropping.
Repairing waterstones:
In the past month, I've wrecked a 4k water slip stone and grooved a big 1k waterstone.
Clamp a BIG mill file to the bench. I have a few from a junk sale at the autowrecker's, maybe 4cm wide and 40cm long. Gently work the water stones on that. As soft as they are, the waterstones true up just fine for my needs.
I ran the 4k slip over a tool edge so hard that the edge of the stone started to crumble away like dry toast. Once again, worked gently on the mill file, good as new! It was wrecked anyway so thought I might as well fool with it.
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