Need new waterstone, what to choose?

[Andreas87]

Hi all!

Some time ago I bought myself some water stones, a king 1000-8000# and a naniwa 3000#.

Since that time i have flattened a lot of chisels and plane blades and it has taken its toll on my 1000# stone. I also have a dmt diamond stone witch I use to flatten the stones. I made a thread earlier on the same subject and I got a lot of good advice especially from stu and Derek. The reason I’m making a new thread now is to get some reviews of the stones you guys use.

My sharpening process is as follows:

Sandpaper on glass: 80#.->120#->320# wanted to go higher but i didn’t find any store that had glue on sandpaper in that grit.

Then I jump to my dmt stone (not really that effective) so I quickly jump to my king 1000# stone witch I use the most in the flattening process. It dishes VERY fast so I need to flatten it every 2 min or so..... I try to use all of the surface/turn stone but alas...
Then it's over to the 3000# stone then 8000# and finally paste on leather.

It works and the results are good but my king stone is halfway used up. I have had it for less than 2 months (In its defense, I have used it ALOT)

I am new to sharpening with water stones so a good technique would probably reduce the wear significantly! I use sandpaper for shaping but the front of the chisel is slightly out of flat after so I use some time on the 1000# stone to get this fixed (I only use sandpaper on the ones that’s bellied the wrong way)

In any case I’m glad I bought the king stone I really learned a lot about keeping a stone flat and I could try and fail on it without destroying an expensive stone.
I use about 2-3 hours on each chisel from rusty bellied to polished sharp, is this a lot? (It feels like a lot)

I was wondering what stones you guys use. Are you happy with you stones? Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!

[Schtoo]

Ask me in a few weeks.

I didn't want you to think you're on your own here more than anything, but I can't say more than "ask me in a few weeks" because I've got something I can't really talk about here at the moment that is rather good.

I've only had it for a few days, it's a prototype and I don't know when it will be commercially available yet.

It'll be worth the wait, I promise.

But it won't exactly be 'cheap'. Not too expensive, but not cheap either.

Stu.

[rsser]

That's a tease Stu!

I've had good results flattening backs with a Shapton #120 stepping up to a Sigma Power Select II #240 and then going to a #1000. Have used a Bester there which worked well; now use a Sigma PS II #1000. The Sigmas cut quickly and tend to dish fairly quickly too but not within 2 minutes - ouch.

IMO hardware-quality abrasive sheet on glass just makes work by dubbing the corners but if you're bent on doing it that way get some plain sheet and stick it to glass with spray-can craft glue applied to both glass and paper.

[johnredl]

I'm new to sharpening also. Ive just bought a 1000/6000/13000 shapton ceramics from Stu. They're great. They make the plane iron sharp enough to terrify my arm hairs into falling out before the iron cuts them. I don't think that they were 100% flat straight out of the box tho, but I was too impatient to flatten them!

I have experimented with DMT Diamond plates...don't bother, they're crap (my opinion)

Thanks Stu, but now u tell me that you have something better?

[Schtoo]

Thanks Stu, but now u tell me that you have something better?

I have something that, at the moment, appears like it might be a game changer, but as I said, it's a prototype, I have the only one in existence (didn't even have a box) and some changes might be made before it becomes commercially available. I hope not, because right now it's completely unique and a monster.

I actually had a reference stone for it to be made from, which itself was surprisingly good and worthy of consideration. The design brief for the new stone(s) was that they are of similar grit range, stay flat, under 1.5kg in weight (for shipping), cut quickly and if possible, don't need soaking.

Of the brief, the stone hits every mark dead centre. The only thing I can reasonably compare it to is an Atoma #400, and I think the stone is faster, and certainly more versatile since it's also tough and will last for a very, very long time.

But I need to send back my findings now, and see if the other stone can't be improved. Of the two stones, one is phenomenal, the other not quite so great. I may not be able to improve the other one (which should have been even better) but that'll not be any great loss.

Of the nearly 100 stones I have now for my own use, testing and experiment, it was the first I laughed at in astonishment. I can only hope that the production version will be the same, and that this one doesn't change with extended use.

And that's why I'm keeping as hush-hush as I can for the moment. But the thing is so amazing, it's difficult to keep too quiet about it.

Stu.

[johnredl]

How long do u think before its available Stu?

[Schtoo]

As soon as possible!

I'll be asking about the good one, and whether it'll be ready to sell today/tomorrow and what it should be called.

To give you an idea, I was only told they were being made 2 weeks ago, after asking about them 3 weeks ago. One week ago, I was told they were being made up, last Wednesday they were made and Friday I got them.

I've done only a handful of tools and knives on them, and that's not really enough to be certain, even though right now, I've got nothing else that even comes close to the lesser one, let alone the good one.

Making up one stone isn't such a big deal, but a production batch? Fortunately they're standard size so I can't forsee much of a problem but also know that I've got these one a 'regular deal' kind of thing, which means I need to share them with anyone else who sells Sigma Power. Good point is that I don't have to front up a big wad of cash to get them done, bad point is I have no control over the timing of them.

So we shall see. As soon as I know, I'll let you know.

Stu.

[Andreas87]

Sounds exiting Stu! I'd better wait and see what happens

rsser: I have experimented with DMT Diamond plates...don't bother, they're crap (my opinion)

I totally agree! I only use it to flatten waterstones now...

Thanks for the replies!!!

[rsser]

Yes Andreas, I wouldn't buy another one. Have gone through a few with my chronic rehabbing disease and they were OK. The plus is they're low maintenance; minus is that they don't last that long and so end up being expensive.

[Pops]

Oh Stu,

You are such a tease. And now you have me saying to myself, 'I want some of those, must have them'.

So like Andreas87, I will be waiting.

Cheers
Pops

[Schtoo]

I am bugging Sigma Power, a lot.

Got told (again) not yet.

I think they're getting the idea that it might be something really good.

I've started to warm to the 'lesser' one as well. It's not staying as flat, but for those folks who like a stone to leave a good finish (knife folks mostly), it's excellent. Absolute consistency, which is rare in a stone like this. And it's fast, so it'll have a different focus, but still a very good stone.

As soon as I can pass them along, I'll get them out there. I promise.

Stu.

(Who's pretty happy with how today ended up. )

[Schtoo]

How long do u think before its available Stu?

Now?

You know where, and still no pics. Been burning the midnight oil a lot of late making up for a missing Sunday (busy meeting and greeting in Miki).

I can tell you that I've not yet tried the production version, the box is pink (bright pink!) and if what's inside matches the stones I used for testing, it's a game changer.

Now, I need to get back to work. Got orders and questions smeared all over the place, and they need to be put back in order ASAP.

Stu.

[rsser]

So is this it Stu?

Sigma Power ceramic stone #400. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.

[Schtoo]

So is this it Stu?

Sigma Power ceramic stone #400. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.

Yep, that's it.

A small phrase is forming about this stone.

"An iron fist in a velvet glove..."

Seriously, it's that good. Even makes diamond plates look a little pedestrian. That little bit of testing surprised even me.

Stu.

[rsser]

Sounds brilliant.

I placed a website order earlier with a qualification.

Would this stone be flattenable with a Tsuboman Atoma #400? Answer would seem to be yes ... ?