Massive tonewood source right under our noses

[mandoman]

Did you know that we have a massive tonewood source growing right under our noses? Yes, grown in plantations, so no problems with the greenies, and an unlimited supply. None other than Pinus radiata. I made this mandolin just to prove a point, but it has suprised the heck out of me. It is turning into one of the best sounding mandolins I have ever made! Top is a 3 piece Pinus radiata from Bunnings. Back is recycled Ash (Eucalyptus regnans) that was given to me as a gift by a friend who salvaged it from CSIRO Forestry. I made it into a black top to disguise the pajama stripes and 3 pieces, but it stands on it's own as far as sound goes.

So there ya go. You never know unless you try it.

[woodturner777]

I wait with baiting breath Peter for the mad rush for Radita pine tonewood.
Another one you should try if you want cheap timber is Macracarpra in the meantime I am off to sharpen the chain saw then off out to fall a Radita pine forest.

[woodturner777]

To be honest Peter, it looks nice I had a look at the photos you posted in the girlie forum, and from what you are saying it sounds good also.

Did you know that we have a massive tonewood source growing right under our noses? Yes, grown in plantations, so no problems with the greenies, and an unlimited supply. None other than Pinus radiata. I made this mandolin just to prove a point, but it has suprised the heck out of me. It is turning into one of the best sounding mandolins I have ever made! Top is a 3 piece Pinus radiata from Bunnings. Back is recycled Ash (Eucalyptus regnans) that was given to me as a gift by a friend who salvaged it from CSIRO Forestry. I made it into a black top to disguise the pajama stripes and 3 pieces, but it stands on it's own as far as sound goes.

So there ya go. You never know unless you try it.

[Sebastiaan56]

Hi Peter,

I too saw your post on the other forum and wanted to ask a few questions. What allowance did you have to make in relation to thickness? I assume these tops are thinner than their spruce equivalents? I assume you picked the nice quartered sections and used the 19mm thick stuff?

Good on you for trying this and leading the way! We have been under the sway of tonewood bullshyte for too long. And before Bob rips my head off I'll say I mean that there is no need to buy into overpriced imported tonewoods to satisfy convention.

[mandoman]

Thickness was within the ballpark of a Spruce top. It was heavier but also stiffer and tuned to about the same at the same thickness so there was no reason to carve it thinner. I picked a 19mm quartered piece that was as light as I could find and slip matched it. Sounded pretty much like a Spruce top when tapped.

[IWieldTheSpade]

I've always wondered how pine would go as a tonewood. Do you think you could post up a short recording of it?
How well do you think it would hold up as an acoustic guitar timber?

[mandoman]

If it works in mandolins it should also work in guitars. Trevor Gore is making a guitar with a radiata pine top, so I am waiting for his impressions on the sound once it gets strung up.

[woodturner777]

G'Day Sebastiaan, agree good of Peter leading the way building using Radiata Pine if you read the posts I also suggested Macrocarpa another cheap wood and an excellant tonewood. but I dont agree about under the sway of tonewood ########. now there is a few custom top builders in this forum that buy there wood from me for there custom builds that want something that extra special quarter sawn air dried something that blows your socks off, as for ripping your head off if you lived in Tasmania I would have two heads to rip off. trouble is a lot of people dont understand my wicked sense of humour also my woods are not overpriced imported tonewoods just so that you know Tasmania is part of Australia and my wood is priced that way it is because of its rarity and I happen to pay the best price there is for high quality logs and I pay the people that work with me top money, as I have said before most of my business is overseas where they are willing to pay that extra for something special I dont make my living off this forum I just have fun being here and giving advice when I can. now correct me if I am wrong Sebastiaan last time we spoke if I remember you were in the printing business with a shop, now why would any one go there for printing Ect, when they can have all this done online much cheaper.
There you go again my wicked sense of humour, by all means build your instruments from the cheapest timbers available it is a good way to learn and if everyone starts building from Radiata Pine no worries I will sit out on the back deck of my new home that will be built next year in my rocking chair and play my electric guitar, Ukelele, and Aloha guitar I will be a one man band, Chill out.

Hi Peter,

I too saw your post on the other forum and wanted to ask a few questions. What allowance did you have to make in relation to thickness? I assume these tops are thinner than their spruce equivalents? I assume you picked the nice quartered sections and used the 19mm thick stuff?

Good on you for trying this and leading the way! We have been under the sway of tonewood bullshyte for too long. And before Bob rips my head off I'll say I mean that there is no need to buy into overpriced imported tonewoods to satisfy convention.

[Stopper]

I have a vested interest in the sale of overpriced tonewood however I applaud Peter's use of radiata and the exceptional craftsmanship that goes into his instruments. On the flip side I have a radiata bookcase in my home which I one day hope to replace with one made of blackwood. (if you get my drift)
cheers
Steve

[Sebastiaan56]

Ah gentlemen, do not mistake my intention. Overpriced "imported" tonewoods. The magic word "imported". Im sure there is no gouging going on here in Aus. I'll add that simple word by saying that printers operate in a market as do tonewood purveyors and that successful businesses carve their niches on more than price. But Im talking to the converted arent I? If I were such a purveyor I'd be quite excited by what Peter has done. There must be other under utilised timbers being burnt or cut up for sleepers.

In all seriousness guys there is a conservatism in instrument making based on history and customer demand. Good on you Peter for challenging that.

[kamusur]

Sebastiaan56



Steve

[woodturner777]

And why do you think there is conservatism in instrument making Sebastiaan.? history only.? traditional known tonewoods.? take Koa long used as a traditional tonewood close cousin of Tasmanian blackwood both acacia, both timbers from Islands with different climates, Tasmanian blackwood colder climate denser, it is Koa on steriods, one more time yes good on Peter for building an instrument from Radiata Pine but it is not going to take off as a tonewood. like if I went out for a meal and was offered cheap chump steak or a great big T.Bone I know what one I would want. I talk to top end luthiers most weeks and some really big companys for there custom build instruments a few times a year for large orders, and they all tell me what sells there instruments as well as been well built it is the Wow factor the beautiful looking wood that is what sells, after working with wood on and off for 52 years in between travel and different jobs around the world, I have yet to see some really beautiful Radiata. Cheers Bob

Attachment 189525

Ah gentlemen, do not mistake my intention. Overpriced "imported" tonewoods. The magic word "imported". Im sure there is no gouging going on here in Aus. I'll add that simple word by saying that printers operate in a market as do tonewood purveyors and that successful businesses carve their niches on more than price. But Im talking to the converted arent I? If I were such a purveyor I'd be quite excited by what Peter has done. There must be other under utilised timbers being burnt or cut up for sleepers.

In all seriousness guys there is a conservatism in instrument making based on history and customer demand. Good on you Peter for challenging that.

[mandoman]

I have yet to see some really beautiful Radiata

Well that is why I made it into a black top. What is going to be interesting is to see is the reactions of musicians when they play it before and after I tell tell them it has a radiata top. My experience is people will always pick up the flashy woods first, but will buy the instruement that sounds the best. For custom instruments they almopst always want the flashiest wood but also expect it will sound the best, and that often is not the case.

Radiata is not likely to become popular as a top wood unless there is no alternative. However, the way the Americans are harvesting their Spruce for construction and pulp wood, plus the Lacey act stuff, that day may very well be approaching. Australian native topwoods are not likely to be able to replace Spruce because of limited supply.

Punya Pine is almost as ugly as radiata, but people are buying guitars with Bunya tops, so there is some hope. Some people do want something different and if it is made from plantation or recycled timber, there is some appeal there.

[woodturner777]

Agree with your comments below Peter,
But then again blackwood can be used as a top, silver wattle is an acacia and as well as the blackwood can be grown in plantations. Some of the eucalyptus can be used as a top.
I am not for one minute knocking your build as it looks great with the black top and as you say sounds good. I do not think in my life time I have to worry about running out of the woods that I supply and if timber had been selectivly logged in the first place we would not have any problems, I am green through and through Peter.
Cheers Bob.

Australian native topwoods are not likely to be able to replace Spruce because of limited supply.

Punya Pine is almost as ugly as radiata, but people are buying guitars with Bunya tops, so there is some hope. Some people do want something different and if it is made from plantation or recycled timber, there is some appeal there.[/QUOTE]

[truckjohn]

In my mind, the largest source of tonewood that is right under our noses is yard trees and street side trees that have to be removed for whatever reason...... That and waste/scrap wood...

There are literally thousands of trees being taken down daily in towns all over the place - and most end up in the dump or the firewood pile.... Some municipalities have finally realized that they could mulch them down - but still........

On the subject of scrap wood - I recently finished up a 4-string Tenor guitar built out of shipping pallets, dunnage, and scrap... I couldn't identify the back and sides wood - until some fellow pointed out that it was some orange/pink flavor of quartersawn Eucalyptus.... So far, it's a fine guitar... Sounds great.

The reason the Eucalyptus threw me is that I'm here in the USA and I salvaged the wood from a shipping pallet... and it's not exactly a common tree like it is down where you guys live....

Thanks