CNC or Not?

[dlannetts]

Hello, just have a quick random question for everyone, i am looking at buying a cnc router to router out guitars, for about 2000$ - 3000$, do you believe that there is an industry in guitar making for me to go out and just buy one of these, i know there is an industry for big companies, but as for me who is just doing this as a hobby and to make a little extra money if i can selling my work, im not sure if ts worth it or not, what do you people think??

[truckjohn]

Well... There's always a market for sundry components in guitar building.... A couple ideas are:
Pre-cut necks, head blocks, and tail blocks
Kerf linings
Fretboards
Bridges
Rosettes, head plates, and other inlay work...

Now... is there a way you could test out the waters to gage where the price points lay?
Say check out the standard Luthierie catalogues... Do the prices seem reasonable? Could you afford to sell for the same or a bit under their list... Maybe save people some $$$ in import fees from the USA and Europe....

Say you could sell pre-cut necks with some generic oversize headstock for $100.00... You might have to sell 40 or 50 to make back that $3K + tooling bits + materials cost.... Could you sell that many at that price?

The 2nd piece is... Is going to be a business that's expected to pay for itself or a hobby? If it's a hobby - you make 1 neck for yourself and 4 or 5 more to sell.... 1 fretboard for yourself and 5 more to sell... Don't worry so much about whether or not you are "Making money" or not...

Thanks

[woodturner777]

Hello, just have a quick random question for everyone, i am looking at buying a cnc router to router out guitars, for about 2000$ - 3000$, do you believe that there is an industry in guitar making for me to go out and just buy one of these, i know there is an industry for big companies, but as for me who is just doing this as a hobby and to make a little extra money if i can selling my work, im not sure if ts worth it or not, what do you people think??

If you want the truth, unless you can hire some illegal immigrants who will work for nothing to operate the CNC don't bother, I note one of the forum members said if you could knock out guitar necks for $100.00 you could do OK what are would you build them out of crap wood, as good wood for necks is not cheap, google guitar body blanks and see what they knock them out for in China, you could not compete with them, as they saying go's your dreaming, prove me wrong. regards Bob

[dlannetts]

Thanks guys for your input.

I did have a look over the internet and various other sources John and i do believe i could make a profit out of a few different products and still provide cheaper prices than some of the other companies in china, after all, as a it is just a hobby for now to produce a finished product all i am paying for is materials and extra's (electricity, running costs, etc), and whats left i get, i am paying no wages.

You to have a good point Bob, but just to be clear all i would want is something that can spit out either a guitar body and/or guitar neck, only something small that i could operate myself, nothing that would be used in a large industrial joinery shop.

Also to clarify, for now im just after something to do in my free time, i enjoy being around musical instruments, mostly electric guitars, if i was to buy a small cnc, and think i could turn it into a small business i would, but i dare say a small business is all it would ever be..

Thanks again John and Bob for you input
Regards,
David

[kamusur]

David have a look at Rick Pentas necks for a comparison (elec and acoustic) he sells on flea bay but i forget his sight, might be luthierman cant remember at the moment.
They are 90 percent finished i have a few Maple, Cherry and Walnut myself and they were each less than $100 delivered to my door and they really are a great product at a good price.
And please if anyone knows where there is better to be had i would appreciate the heads up myself. Whereabouts r you located David?



Steve

[dlannetts]

Hello Steve, never heard of flea bay before, interesting site however if it this one: Home

I cant say I've ever bought a guitar neck before, if i was to buy one but it would probably be from eBay. Depending on what the necks look like you sound like your getting a pretty good deal but, sounds really good indeed.

Im located in Leeton, NSW, decent size country town (12,000 peeps) in between Griffith and Wagga Wagga.

[kamusur]

My apologies David it is ebay and his site there is Luthierman7, his other net contact is Rick Penta Guitar Works, i just checked and he is a great guy to deal with.

Steve

[Ben Dono]

Starting a business is tough! But can be worth it in the long run.

There care many keys to making a business profitably but this is just my perspective.

Learning where the money is your bread and butter. In a cafe style business in Sydney, all the profit to be made is on takeaway coffee's and the kitchen usually breaks even. The same with pizza/pasta shops. The real profit is in ham and pineapple pizza. In blacksmithing selling at the markets it's the $30 dollar trinkets that I'm sure the artist does not really love making but they walk out the door.

I know in my business which is mostly custom work, the money was in job that took 1 day to organize materials 2 to 3 days workshop construction and 1 day installation where my client took on about 50% of my suggestions for the design and construction. Any shorter and the meetings/quoting and finding materials took too much time and any longer and unseen variables can eat in in to the profit..

One things for sure, with out the tools none of this can happen anyway. Buy the tool! Enjoy learning and using it. Make some money slowly from it! It will open up doors in the future for you anyway.

[UZJ40]

I would definatly be interested, i am currently looking at China and the US to get body blanks and necks. There are tons of crap out of China, but i have found 3 factorys that produce good quality bodys, one of them does some OEM bodys and necks, including Warmouth items. I will be getting some samples in March

[dlannetts]

haha, i did originally look at eBay Steve and than it occurred to me that you may be talking about something else, so i searched Google for it instead , just had a look for luthierman7, he does sell some pretty interesting necks, just going through all of his listings now to see all of what he offers.

And thanks Ben, you have inspired me, i get a large amount of money soon, due to being in an apprenticeship, i might invest all of it and some of my own money and buy one, and i'll see where it takes me, but im absolutely positive i wont look back..

[floody_85]

I would definatly be interested, i am currently looking at China and the US to get body blanks and necks. There are tons of crap out of China, but i have found 3 factorys that produce good quality bodys, one of them does some OEM bodys and necks, including Warmouth items. I will be getting some samples in March

Do u have any website addresses for those companies? Ive been looking into something simillar for a while.

[UZJ40]

Have a look on this site, it has most factorys on it.

Guitar kit, China guitar kit, guitar kit Manufacturers, China guitar kit catalog

[SawDustSniffer]

the time it takes to draw decent CAD flies also has to be factored in

not sure if you know that every line has to meet ,any gaps and the CAM program will refuse to draw a tool path ( 1 / 10000th of mm gap ) just drawing lines wont work , they need to be "constrained" ( decent CAD program ) google sketch wont work , a rectangle is good , 4 lines that look joined in the shape of a rectangle is not good

you would have to make 100 just to justify the time taken on CAD

the power consumption is huge , my small CNC machine uses 3 x 10AMPS fuse box lines @ 240volts , ,
thats a PC 400watts,
stepper controller 900watts,
compressor for coolent 500watts ,
vacuum cleaner for dust extraction 1200watts,
vacuum pump for clamping 900watts ,
pump and fans for spindle cooling 200watts ,
spindle 1500watts
if your project runs for 3-4 hours for milling the electricity the 5400watts is not trivial

i say go for it if you enjoy CAD , stunning designs will sell , plain basic designs are covered , and of course if you do sell heaps of one design the Chinese will copy it

would a small CNC fit a guitar neck ? 2000-3000 , unless its one of the 900mm600mm ones it wont and the "9060"is not a small machine

[simso]

Nope sorry theres no market here in australia for it.

If you had an established line of guitars that were selling for top dollar then you could consider it.

How do I know, I own and run a musical instrument repair shop with an auto changing 8 tool cnc here in australia. We repair and sometimes make guitars.

If I was to make a guitar body, the wood alone for a solid bodied guitar out of mahogany is $125 plus gst, the material to make a neck fretboard and then fret it up is $95 plus gst, so materials cost is $220 plus gst then add labour to do the computer work and jigging and final shaping, add in the machine for cnc'ing and overheads running costs and your looking at a realistic cost of about 500 a body and neck made, I can have a body and neck supplied / shipped and shaped to my specs in the material I want for 110 from china ready for the final finishing.

Electricity as mentioned above is ridiculous, our cnc is 9000 watts plus a 4000 watt vacuum bed and a 1500 watt extraction fan, 2000 watt air compressor for the atc, this means to have it up and running is 16500 watts an hour....youve really got to be making money to want to power it up

Sorry, mate but the manufacturing industry in australia just cant compete with overseas.

Its dead and buried

[_fly_]

Have a look at this one Guitar Worx DIY Electric Guitar Kits Australia. They sell everything for about 150 bucks. If you look on ebay he has the same ones starting at 99 bucks. Usually get get you want for that as well (no-one else bidding). Now they are not the greatest parts and they are basswood bodies (soft). But if your going to paint it and glasscoat it then its ok.