Family Trailer Sailer <18ft

[Capturethebeer]

G'day all,

I'm pretty sure this question has been asked plenty of times before, but I'm trying to find a boat plans that best meet my needs/abilities. Therefore here is what I'm looking for:
Less than 18ft LOA so I can fit it in my garage which 5.65m (local council requirement)
Capable of single handed sailing, however also capable of lugging 4-5 people about.
Sailed in Cockburn Sound WA (~32°S 115°E) with some trips to Rottnest Island or down the coast to the Peel Estuary, normally Sea State 1-2 inside the sound rising to 2-3 outside.
Auxiliary propulsion in the form of a petrol or electric outboard.
No need or desire to row.
Total towing weight including trailer of less than 750kgs (maximum un-braked load)
My sail powered experience is limited to a TL4 course I did back in 2004, so I'd like a rig that I can grow with (~cliched I know).
Speed is not as big an issue as comfort and stability. A cabin/shelter from the weather is also a nice to have.
Trying not to limit myself to any particular construction method at this time, once I've decided on the plan I'll go about getting the required skillset.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I've looked at a lot of different designs thus far but I'm not sure which would be best suited.

Regards

Dan

[Asrainox]

Are you looking to build? Or to buy? I'm guessing build, as it's the woodwork forum, but if you're looking to buy, my suggestions might not be so close to the mark.

A couple more guiding questions!

If you're looking to build, then the first step is being proud of the finished product, so you'll want a design you like the look of when finished, the handling of when on the water, and the process of building in the first place

mono-hull or multi?
"Traditional" look (lapstrake or something similar) or modern ply construction?
Fancy building with lots of epoxy? or more traditionally?
General level of woodworking skills?
Speed at which you'd like to progress.

These will help us all suggest designs (and building methods) that you'd maybe enjoy using in the coming years, or if you are looking to buy, to be happy putting cash down on.

Assuming you're building:

Just 'cos I'm building one at present, I have to submit the Hartley TS 16 as an option.

5m LOA.
Single handable, but more suited to 2-3, can pack on ~6 people if you really wanted to without being too tippy.
Designed originally for the NZ coastal/bay racing area, so can take a chop, and is pretty stable for its length.
Carries a fairly simple rig, but can get a lot of speed out of it.
Dedicated outboard well specifiedin the plans.
Hull weight is usually about 400-450kg fully loaded, so should come under 750 on the tow.

Association found here - http://www.australianhartleyts16.org.au/



Otherwise, I'd consider a more modern construction (And a faster boat) in the same vein, Waller 540http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/ts540.html - but it might be JUST too long for the shed.



And these two from John Welsford are lovely, if you can do without the cabin. These boats are gorgeous, and I occasionally wish I were building one instead (probably the Navigator, seems a nicer package)

Pilgrim - John Welsford Designs



Navigator - John Welsford Designs



Good luck! Chime in again and we'll help you narrow down your mark.

[Capturethebeer]

Thanks for the quick reply,

My intention is to build. Single hull would be the preferred solution (I had a look at the Jarcat but it looks like it sits quite high on its trailer). Woodworking wise I'm definitely a beginner, I've built a few bookshelves, a workbench, and the ministry of war and finance has me working on a stowage chest/seat for her shoes/handbags. I've also done some fibreglass work for speaker boxes.

The more traditional lines appeal to me rather the look of the stitch and glue hulls, that being said I've got Sam Devlins' book and have read it quite thoroughly. I've got no aversion to epoxy though if it helps deliver the goods.

Speed of build is a tricky one, any work I do will be done in bursts of 20-40 hours over a couple of weeks followed by a pause due to work.

I like the look of the Navigator but as you said it doesn't have a cabin.

The Hartley 16 is nice and lets face it to have been so popular for 50 years it must be doing something right.

Oughtred's designs look nice (Tirrik, Fulmar) but both look like things could get quite wet.

Regards Dan

[HOOKED.UP]

Dan.

I will come in here, with another consideration.
From your original post, you have storage limits in your shed/garage.
If you are wanting an auxiliary outboard, that adds length to you boat. Plus a bit for clearance.
Being on a trailer, adds length of draw bar to your ability to close your shed door..

You might want to think about these points, before you choose your final design.

Paul.

[Capturethebeer]

G'day Paul

Thanks for the input.
I've got the room to store an outboard separately, I'm looking at no more than a 4hp or an electric anyway, and regarding the trailer I've found a few local trailer builders that do either swing tongue or break back designs, though I've still gotta find out what they add to boat length.

Regards Dan

[b.o.a.t.]

If you can cope with the aesthetics, Bolger's Micro would tick most, if not all
your boxes, including build simplicity.

The Welsford boats offer some challenges to the novice boat builder, but
those who has 'em seems to love 'em. And they do look sweet. I wuz gunna
build Houdini until a too-good-to-pass-up TS16 caught my eye. And wallet.

B&B's Core Sound 15 & Headland Boats Green Island 15 are a pair of capable
open boats. The Core Sound would probably be the more spacious, but the GI
possibly drier.

My personal favourite designs are Murray Isles' Grey Teal (18) & Chestnut Teal (16).
I don't think many have been built, but they are a pair of incredibly well
thought-out small cruisers. go to Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine, enter
'Islesdesign.com' in the WayBackMachine search engine. Pick a later date eg.
Dec 2007 & browse the cattledog.

After all that, I bought a doer-upper TS16 to do pretty much the type of
things you plan to do. I want to modify the rig to a balanced lug cat-ketch to
cure a couple of dislikes about the sloop rig. And raise the cabin roof so I can
sit inside it comfortably. Those are personal taste things - the as-designed
boat is fine for most. The hull is tremendously stable, although a bit slow
by modern standards, and splashy in a chop.

& that's just scratching the surface of what's available. Spoilt for choice.

cheers
AJ

[Capturethebeer]

Thanks for the reply AJ,

That link you provided is great not only for the Murray Isles designs but also for looking at the Headland Boat designs as well (I think their site is down or the url has changed). The question though are these designers still out there, the Chestnut Teal looks like it ticks a lot of the right boxes I'm just a little unsure on the through build support available.

I don't mind the looks of the Bolger Micro but there is no way that it'll get approval from the ministry of war and finance.

The Devlin Eider caught my eye as well but I'm unsure on it's abilities down under, and it does seem to have a very large materials cost comparative to other designs of similar length, eg Selway-Fisher Ptarmigan17.

Also I'm not sure I really need the cabin, other than a place for kids to get out of the sun/rain as I'm unlikely to stay at sea overnight (I get that enough with the Navy). Using it to get to limited access campsites is another matter.

Regards Dan

[b.o.a.t.]

I understand that Murray Isles has health problems, but mostly, his commercial
vessel work over-shadowed his recreational designs, so that's where he
redirected his time. Haven't seen his plans but understand they are easy to follow
& rich in detail. The Teals were developed in consultation with Duck Flat,
so there is an institutional connection with Dave there or Rob Ayliffe of Stray
Dog. MIK who inhabits these fora from time to time also worked there so may be
able to comment.

Mike Roberts Headland Boats AFAIK is still trading. GI15 builders who've written
up their builds all seem to have gone together smoothly.

Speaking of MIK, there's also his Goat Island Skiff. I think it's possibly a 3 or 4
adults maximum boat, so I didn't mention it earlier. However it is a winner on the
simplicity of build plus performance. MIK recently did the Texas 200 in one with
a builder there. Poke around in Michael Storer Wooden Boat Plans - Woodwork Forums for
more info & pics. Think "hidden technology" when you look at MIK's designs.
They might look retro, but he hates slow boats and inefficient design.

PAR is a USA designer who is generous with his advice & enormous knowledge
in this forum. He may have something in his portfolio to suit you too. Sadly,
despite our prodding, he's never put up his portfolio on a web-site. So you'd
have to ask him directly.

[Capturethebeer]

G'day all

Thanks for the help I've just purchased a digital copy of the GIS from Duckflats. While it doesn't meet all the requirements (nothing really did, 10 pound of stuff in a 3 pound sock ), it is great looking, well documented and is very economical in terms of effort and materials (something that'll help me finish it). As it needs less material than most other platforms of the same size I can afford to spring for the better quality stuff. Now I'm just waiting for Duckflats to email me the file (I assume that's how it works) so I can print it and study up. I'll keep you all posted on progress on the MIK side of the forum.

Regards Dan

[Asrainox]

Hi again,

Try these website indexes also, for a wonderful index of boat plans (many USA based, but a great variety - best thing is the indexes are organised by LOA length of boats, with links to plan resellers, where available).

Duckworks Indexes - Daysailers

Duckworks Indexes - Trailer Sailer Cruisers

Particularly I liked this one too. Paul Fisher designs, and he has a great range of options that are easy to build - I notice you'd found a few of his already.



16ft (4.88m) LOA, cabin Gaff Cutter, can be made ply-on-chine, stitch and glue, or strip planked, as to your preference Has a centreboard option, or a full keel option, but may be too heavy.

Duckworks Boatbuilders Supply


And call me a heathen, but I love CLC's pocketship. Apparently, they're great. The raised foredeck adds interior room into what is reportedly a shockingly spacious 14' 10" trailer sailer.

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/w...uiser-kit.html

http://youtu.be/JcM4XrwDsXQ

She's just gorgeous. Modern build, traditional gaff rig and bowsprit and the raised foredeck adds space and charm to an otherwise pedestrian design philosophy!

I'll probably build a pocketship after the Hartley, just for fun.

Good Luck again!

[Capturethebeer]

G'day again

I got the plans yesterday for the Goat Island Skiff from Duckflat, very impressed thus far with the quality and detail in the plans. I'll probably use Paulownia(Kiri) instead of WRC and Hoop Pine instead of the Oregon, but I'll stick with the Gabon for the ply. Now I've gotta convince the minister to open the purse strings for the wood .

Cheers

Dan

[b.o.a.t.]

That's one thing for sure about MIK's plans - you get a whole boat-building
course chucked in for free.

[damian]

I've got a jarcat J5. Magnificent boat, no trouble to tow. I think it's about 7' to the mast but I'd have to measure it. There is a reason they have such a fanatical following, and they sail flat, fast and have nice manners.

The thing is you'd only get one if you wanted a cabin. full double plus 2 singles in a 16' boat.

I love mine so much I've considered designing a rounded hull version in strip (I don't like the ply/chine construction, but that's personal preference).

Be aware that the trailer will be longer than the boat so if your garage is 18' deep your restricted by that.

[Capturethebeer]

Thanks Damian

I really liked the space available and the layout on the J5, and I've got nothing against multihulls (a friend at work has a beautiful 12m example that he and his wife just sent 2 years off Queensland in, drool ), however 7 ft high to the mast step on the trailer will be cutting it very fine at my new house. I think I've got about 2.16m clearance to the garage door (no the wife won't let me cut it ). I think I'll just stick with Goat for the time being, it definitely seems to the most fun per sheet of plywood, and I can use it to level up boat building for the next project. Current names being bandied about for project include Hafr-Skip (old norse for goat boat), ChupaCabra (some kind of Mexican goat eating lizard monster thing) or Chupathingy (geeky reference to Red vs Blue).

Cheers Dan

[b.o.a.t.]

I don't think "Baaaaa" has been used yet...