Lithium Ion cordless drill: advice needed

[Evan Pavlidis]

Guys, I need some advice; I'm in the market for a cordless lithium ion drill and narrowed my selection between the Bosch industrial rated (blue drill) and the Millwaukee.

They are rated as follows:

Bosch 36V with 2 lithium ion batteries rated at 1.3 mAh
Millwaukee 18 V with 2 lithium ion battearies rated at 3.0 mAh

My question is, does the Bosch have twice the grunt as the Millwaukee (36V compared to 18V)?
Will the 1.3mAh batteries require more frequent charging compared to the 3.0 mAh batteries (the difference between the 2 is 40% more capacity)
Which drill is better quality?

What is the difference between a brush and brushless motor as far as performance and reliability? I will be using the drill for frequent home use. I don't want to go anywhere near Nicad powered drills; they discharge if not used frequently and worst, they have memory.

If I purchase the Bosch with 1.3mAh batteries, can I later down the track purchase higher capacity batteries, say 2.0mAh?

Thanks in advance, Evan

[rileyp]

I think you mean 1.3ah
and 3.0 ah
A 36 volt drill with a 1.3 ah battery would be next to useless as the 1.3 ah would get chewed up so fast it wouldnt be funny.Its capacity is far to small for its power output!
Most 12 volt plain jane cheapo battery drills are 1.5 amp hour eg a 12volt green bosch with 2 batteries for $99
A 18 volt 3.0 amp hour li-ion drill would be a a top of the range 18 volt drill.
And so this would be a workhorse and be respected by all who use it.
Your much better off posting up the model numbers and links to each one if you want help though!
eg Are you after just a plain battery drill or a rotary hammer or percussion hammer etc etc...
hope this helps

[TEEJAY]

Evan,

Have a look at the Festool site and see what they say about brushless motors and lithium batteries.

FAQ section or C12 drill section - may find it enlightening.

[Evan Pavlidis]

Thanks guys for your responses.

The 2 drills I was looking at are:

Bosch 36V model GSB36V-LI with 1.3Ah batteries
and
Millwaukee 18V model V18DD with 3.0 Ah batteries.

Also had a look at the Festo website and what they had to say about brushless motors which made a lot of sense, but I don't intend to buy a cordless unless it is run by Lithium cells. If Festool had a lithium ion powered drill I'd have it by now, no questions asked.
Will a NiMH battery powered drill last longer than NiCad powered? Does it have memory like the Nicads?

What do you think guys, I welcome your knowledge regarding the above mentioned models; I intend to use the drill for drilling and driving; don't need hammer or rotary action.

Thanks in advance, Evan

[Milar]

I stumbled on this, should answer some questions, or add to the confusion!

http://www.ezinearticle.net/Article/...s--Li-Ion/1809

[Groggy]

If Festool had a lithium ion powered drill I'd have it by now, no questions asked.

Evan, I vaguely recall Festool may be about to release a Li-Ion unit. It may pay to ask nt900 if he has heard anything.

[Pusser]

If you want Lithium you should consider panasonic as they have the best battery technology and all their lithiums are 3AH (and their drills are very good, very compact and have good power) bur currently only do 14.4V. If you need 18 or 36Vlithium (because you like heavy drills?) then you have the two you selected and the 18V makita which are all good drills.

NiMH are only good if you use and charge them all the time otherwise you will likely find them flat when you want to use them and they have a shorter life than NiCd but no memory problems. Lithium are lighter, maintain their charge longer and have the best power to weight ratio and no memory effect. They are relatively new however which is why I prefer panadonic - they have the best battery technology and are the leaders in it.

[Chris Parks]

Brushless motors deliver more power in any given voltage, a simple fact that has yet to establish itself in the tool market. If you want the best buy a brushless motor in any brand (there are only a few). Panasonic at my last look only did a dedicated driver in brushless at 14V. Festool do a 12V drill driver and I don't know of any others, has Makita got one out yet? Put simply you don't need a thumping great battery with a brushless as they deliver more power in any voltage.

[Evan Pavlidis]

Thanks guys,

had a look at the panasonic website and the only lithium ion driver with a brushless motor is the 14.4 V EY7540LN2S impact driver.
Makita lithium ion drills are brush motors.
The panasonic 14.4 V EY7542LN2S model is a multi function impact driver with drill driver mode which is perfect for me, but it doesn't state brush or brushless motor.

[underused]

The impacter can drill holes too
I have one, and use the quick change drill bits. Both drilling and driving/bolting is easy with the impacter
cheers!

[Pete F]

I think you mean 1.3ah and 3.0 ah A 36 volt drill with a 1.3 ah battery would be next to useless as the 1.3 ah would get chewed up so fast it wouldnt be funny.Its capacity is far to small for its power output!

Just to clarify this, as it is possibly a little misunderstood. The battery stores a given amount of energy. If all things were equal, but two tools were 18V and 36V, the latter would draw roughly half the current for the same power output. There are certain inefficiencies (I2R losses) which would theoretically make a higher voltage tool more efficient, but in reality manufacturing differences could more than counter this.

In the above example, if the 36V tool used 1.5A/hr battery, the two would be very nearly the same. 1.3A/hr is close to 1.5A/hr; the two are roughly roughly equal.

While the energy stored in a battery is technically measured in joules, and it is the rate of use that is measured in Watts, for our purposes we can consider them the same. Hence if you want to compare the approximate capacity of different batteries multiply the battery's voltage by the Amp/hr rating. Again, this is not precisely correct, but we're in a workshop not a physics lab so it will give a pretty good guide.

Hope this helps.

[rileyp]

pete f your jibbering physics.
I understand Ir2 losses and all that other jabber but in reality a 36 volt drill wont drill the hole or put the screw in twice as fast.And so a 36 volt drill with a 1.3 amp hour battery wont last anywhere near as long as a 3 amp hour 18 volt beast even if it is only using half the current which I serously doubt.

[Pete F]

pete f your jibbering physics.
I understand Ir2 losses and all that other jabber but in reality a 36 volt drill wont drill the hole or put the screw in twice as fast.And so a 36 volt drill with a 1.3 amp hour battery wont last anywhere near as long as a 3 amp hour 18 volt beast even if it is only using half the current which I serously doubt.

Well I'm not about to argue with you about this and I'm certainly sorry that you consider it "Jibberish". Just for interest however you may care to read this http://www.panasonic.ca/english/powertools/battery.asp or this http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...e.aspx?id=2995 or this http://www.concreteconstruction.net/...ticleID=473726

Failing that, try a Google search on Watt-hrs as it relates to cordless batteries.

Evan just to throw a bit of a spanner in the works for you, given that you have basically narrowed it down to a choice of 2, but I recently picked up the new Makita 18V Li and so far it seems great. The impact driver is certainly impressive and it seems some others here have similar experiences. Good luck

[seriph1]

I know it is late in the piece but I would vote for the Bosch product as I have seen it in use - in ABuse actually and it seemed virtually un-killable. We used them (along with Paslode cordless nailers, which we did kill, and DeWalt 18V nailers which we couldn't kill) to build the Myer Christmas Parade Floats. No one had time to be nice to the tools and the Bosch impact drivers were awesome.

[Clinton1]

Bosch 36V with 2 lithium ion batteries rated at 1.3 Ah

Bosch website.

The Bosch website tells us that:
Bosch GSR 36 V-Li has 80 Nm torque for hard screwing and 40 Nm for soft screwing, and weighs 2.5 kg.

Bosch GSB 36 V-Li (impact drill) has 78 Nm and 32 Nm, and 2.7 kg respectivly.

Both come with 2 x batteries.

Both use batteries that are rated at 36 Volt and 1.3 Amp hour.
You can fit a 2.0 Ah battery to both drills, its just a larger battery pack.

Millwaukee V18DD Max. torque - hard screwing 71 Nm, soft screwing 32 Nm. Weight 2.6 kg.
Seems to be sold with 2 x lithium ion batteries rated at 18 Volt and 3.0 Amp hour.

The Millwaukee website uses different model names, so I could not find the V18 DD there... maybe you can have a look and put up the link to the right model?

Using Peters Voltage x Amp hour you can see that the Milwaukee has slightly better "battery life".

What I like about the Bosch is that you can just buy a higher Amp hour rated battery, for about a 1/2 kg increase in weight.
The 2.0 Ah battery fits the charger sold with the drill.
This means a much greater battery life when you upgrade.
Batteries are just a consumable, so it should not be a problem.

Ask the Bosch people for a price on swapping one of the two batteries in the Bosch drill the 2.0 Ah one. That is if you think you want the longer time in between charges.

I have used a GSR 36 V-Li on a landscaping and roofing job at my place... I liked the grunt, but it is a bit heavy. Mine came with the 2.0 Amp batteries and an after market all metal chuck, so it was a bit heavier

My question is, does the Bosch have twice the grunt as the Millwaukee (36V compared to 18V)?

you can see for yourself that the Bosch has a little more grunt. The Bosch, with the 2.0 Ah battery, will last much longer than the Milwaukee between battery change overs.

Will the 1.3Ah batteries require more frequent charging compared to the 3.0Ah batteries (the difference between the 2 is 40% more capacity)

The Bosch 2.0 Ah batteries will last longer, see the point above, and yes the 1.3Ah will require more frequent change over. I don't think you will have a drama with waiting for a battery to charge... if it is for "frequent home use".

Which drill is better quality?

Sorry, can't help there.. never used a Millwaukee product.

What is the difference between a brush and brushless motor as far as performance and reliability? I will be using the drill for frequent home use. I don't want to go anywhere near Nicad powered drills; they discharge if not used frequently and worst, they have memory.

If it is frequent home use, perhaps you won't need the high torque and that may mean a lighter drill (less V, less Ah ratings) is more "user friendly" for you?

If I purchase the Bosch with 1.3mAh batteries, can I later down the track purchase higher capacity batteries, say 2.0Ah?

Yes, the 2.0 Ah batteries are currently available.