How bad is it?

[Wayno1]

I recently bought a Hartley 14. Coming home from a rainy day sail the ratchet on the winch slipped and the boat jumped about a little on the trailer before I noticed resulting in a nasty little(10cm x2cm x3mm) scrape on the centrecase. To fix this a friend suggested sanding off the surrounding paint, bogging it up with plastibond, sanding smooth and repainting. is this a sensible option?

my bigger concern is with the timber. after leaving the boat in the shed for a week or so I went to assess the scrape. When I felt the timber it was wet to touch. I looked in the boat and saw that some rainwater had gathered. I drained the boat properly, left the boat for another week and the timber felt dry. Does this mean the timber is stuffed, and if so what are my options. It feels firm now that it has dried out and there are no soft spots anywhere? Any ideas greatly appreciated.

[vk4]

The timber should be fine, DO NOT USE PLASTI_BOND, it will not adhere to the surface correctly.

I suggest that if the damage is sever enough, an expoy filler would be a better solution. Then repaint .

A couple of Pictures would help.

Jeff
vk4

[Wayno1]

Thanks Jeff, I'll take a picture tomorrow.

[PAR]

Bingo, Jeff has it right. Epoxy might be the choice, but first is the rest of the boat skinned ('glassed) in cloth? If so, can you see any naked areas so you can tell what color the resin is?

Odds are, you dinged her up a bit, some goo (maybe) and paint, she'll be fine. The bottom of boats take a beating on a trailer, so no worries, just wipe the blood off her lip and move on.

[Asrainox]

I'll also chime in on the "Use a small amount of epoxy with mixed in filler, sand it smooth, and repaint" wagon.

Regarding :

"the timber it was wet to touch. I drained the boat properly, left for another week ... timber felt dry.... feels firm now that it has dried out."

That's what is meant to happen. Timber (even painted timber) absorbs moisture when in the water, and dries out again on the trailer between sails. You'd expect the timber to feel wet and slightly softer for a few days after sailing (depending on Temperature and time in the water), and to then dry out again and firm up. If you ever notice the timber DOESN'T feel firm again, that is a problem.

You've not cooked the goose here, it's a ding. Patch it and get back out there!

[PAR]

I wouldn't use epoxy, unless the boat has a sheathing. If it's just a plywood boat, no 'glass work, except for maybe chine tapes, then you would be better off without the epoxy. The only time I would recommend epoxy on this type of boat (unsheathed or unencapsulated) is a Dutchman repair, where a hunk of keel is cut out, a new piece made to replace it and epoxy used as the adhesive to glue the new, undinged piece back in. Most everyone knows how I feel about epoxy, but it's not always the solution, though my other half thinks I can fix anything with epoxy, sometimes it's not necessary or desired. This is particularly true of boats that aren't encapsulated and/or sheathed. On these types of builds, you're best off, using the epoxy as a glue only, in repairs and it does very well in this role.

[Wayno1]

Thanks everyone for the feedback-the more I read the more i realise that i don't know.

My boat is built from ply with glass along the joins. From what I've read it seems the best bet is some sort of epoxy fill. Par, if I didn't use the epoxy what would be my other option? I hope to have a picture this evening. I rushed this morning and the pics were of no use.

Thanks again

[Wayno1]

Pictures attached. I hope that they are clear enough. the centrecase seems to have a thin "skin" over it- i presume this is glass. As I've said before, the rest of the hull is painted ply with the seams glassed. The gash is not enormous, but I'd like to fix it properly so that I can sail again when the rain stops.

[PAR]

It's likely you have some 'glass inside the case and on the garboard seams. If this is the case, you'll be okay with epoxy, but a Dutchman would serve as well and be less trouble. The damage seems to be high enough, to threaten the water tight integrity of the garboard seam, though difficult to tell from the photos. If this is the case, you still have two choices; first is to cut out the bad spot and fit a new piece of wood, back in or fill the bashed in spot, with thickened epoxy. The question really is do you apply 'glass over the area again or not.

If you see 'glass, once you sand off the paint, you probably need to reseal the seam area with more 'glass. If you don't see 'glass in the area around the damage, then I wouldn't bother with the 'glass, just fit a Dutchman (scab type repair), sand and paint.

[vk4]

I would clean up the damaged section , and fill with epoxy filler & resin, ensuring to key the timber . Then sand and place 1 layer of glass over the area, then paint.

If there is deep damage &/or rot in the timber , i would then cut out the damage& rot, and glue in a new section of timber, then place a layer of glass over , sand & paint.

the TIMBER looks dark in the PIC , is it sound?? , just ensure that the area is dry , and clean before you do any repair , as excess moisture will affect anything you do in the area.

Jeff

[Wayno1]

Ok I've read the many responses (thanks everyone). I'm starting to think there may be some rot in the centre case. I've only had my boat for a couple of months( the boat is 20+ years old)and this will be my first major repair experience (first wooden boat and first repair) So please forgive my very simple questions
1. How can I tell if the wood has rot- is there a simple test?
2. Is the epoxy filler and resin available at the local hardware store suitable for boat repair or would I need a Marine mixture.
3. What sort of timber should I use to patch the timber I remove.
4. If I do have to replace some timber Is it a "must" to repair it immediately, or could I do a quick patch for a few months and do the major patch- up over winter?
5. What does it mean to "key" the timber?

Thanks again for patience and advice

[PAR]

Rot has a smell that's easy to find, it's soft, mushy and sponge like to the touch too. If it's under 'glass, the 'glass may hide the feel, so poke around with a screw driver or scratch awl. Good wood will feel hard and firm, but rot will be progressively mushy, depending on how much and how bad it is. You can also "thump" the wood to see how it sounds. Healthy wood will have a density which rings a bit when thumped with a deadblow hammer or mallet. If you thump over an area of rot, the sound will change (it'll sound like dead spot) and you'll instantly know to investigate this area further. If your hammer is bouncing along, making a "bonk, bonk, bonk" sound and you suddenly hear a "tump, tump, tump" type sound, you can pretty much bet you've just found some rot.

If you have case issues (don't be surprised), then the best advise is to remove it. Most are designed to be removed, as it's a common area for issues to occur. Typically the lower end of the case has nailers called logs that are screwed, lagged or through bolted to the keel or centerline batten. Remove the fasteners and pry the case off as an assembly. There will be a bedding compound (gooie stuff) between it and the keel, but a hot knife or razor blade can get through it fairly easily.

With the case removed, you'll probably find a few different problems. The most common at rotted fastener holes and fasteners, worn out bedding, worn out board pivot and rot in the lower portions of the case sides and the logs themselves. You'll address each separately.

Sometimes previous repairs make disassembling the case imposable, but if the designer knew his stuff and it's not been "modified" by an unknowing owner somewhere along the line, it' should come apart with screws and nails removed and more gooie stuff (bedding) cut away.

The epoxy you'll use is BoteCoat or West System. BoteCoat is cheaper and nearly as good, so avail yourself of the savings. There may be other brands down there, but I wouldn't trust them, when 95% of your countrymen are using BoteCoat or West.

The replacement timber should be at least of equal density and physical properties as the stuff you have. The case logs will or should be hardwood and down there you have lots of good choices (I wish I hard the hardwood choices you have). The case sides will probably be plywood and you also have some good choices there as well.

A quick patch wouldn't need the use of epoxy, frankly. If you want, just clean the area, apply some good paint and have fun in the warm months. This way you don't have to hack out the epoxy (doing more damage) this winter when you're wondering what to do with your time.

To "key" anything to something else, is to create a mechanical connection by the physical shape of the parts. A dove tail joint is a perfect example of this. Once assembled the parts stay together, because of the joint's shape. Keying can also mean sufficient surface area for adhesives or glue to bond to, such as using a very rough grit sand paper, so that subsequent layers of paint or glue have more area to grab a hold off. I wouldn't worry about keying the repair piece so much, if using epoxy as the adhesive. If using some other adhesive then I would consider this, such as a shallow tongue and groove or mortised joint.

From what I can see, you have nothing to worry about and should just continue having fun this summer. Let the damage enjoy it's freedom for a short while longer and then attack it this winter, when it's too cold to use the boat.

[Wayno1]

Thanks "Par" for the time and effort in your comprehensive reply. You have given me plenty to work with and think about. looking forward to a quick patch so I can enjoy a bit of sailing before I start the fix up.

Cheers

[Colfa]

I also have a Hartley 14 that I've been sailing and repairing following some of the solid advice I've been given on this forum. I'd be interested in seeing more photos of your boat if you are willing to post.

[Wayno1]

Here are a couple of pictures of "Saga". I bought her in September. The previous owner had had her for a few years and didn't know how old she was. Our best guess was very.

She's a great size, easy to tow, easy to rig, easy to sail and fits in the shed with room to spare. No sleeping space but I could do it rough with a boom tent.