JIN DI SUGI! What exactly is it?

[Antonio Saleh]

Can somebody PLEASE tell me about the finishing process of Jin Di Sugi. I am in year 12 at Christian Brothers' High School, Lewisham and currently learning Industrial Technology: Timber and preparing for my Major Work this year in 2012. I have done my research on this process, and there is very little on it! I encountered this beautiful finish as I was reading a Fine Woodworking magazine, and it briefly explained what it was. The pictures given were just amazing and it got me excited. I felt a sense of originality, due to the fact that not many people know about the finish, thus, giving me more marks

Please guys, I really need your help on this process. I want to know what the best timber to use on it would be. Also, looking at this video by John Scott Bradstreet, [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CLvXUcOM-U]Suji Wood Finish - YouTube[/ame] , at around 5:03, John puts the timber in the sunlight, to allow the audience(myself) see the grain texture. Now this is what really got me interested, but then again I'm not sure... Does the grain stick out??? When I mean by stick out, I mean, if you run your hand across the grain, will it be bumpy? I've seen some beautiful antique timber projects before and it amazes me because the grain is exposed. So, is it exposed or an illusion? Finally, at around 5:43, what does he coat it with? It's just beautiful. I would appreciate all the help and research given, guys. Thanks,

Antonio Saleh

[Master Splinter]

It's also called a burnt wood finish.

Basically, all that is happening is that the wood is being charred at different rates - the less-dense wood that grows quickly in spring chars faster, leaving the slower, denser, harder to burn summer wood as raised ridges. Yes, you can feel the ridges.

Works best with fast growing softwoods (pine, oregon, cedar) - I think it would be rather difficult with some of our almost fireproof hardwoods!!

The finish is just an oil or shellac finish, by the look of it from that video.

[Antonio Saleh]

Thank you heaps! I kind of understand it now but I need a run through it! ahahaha a practical demonstration would be great... Step by step, you know... ahahahaha thanks again,

Antonio Saleh.

[ian]

Can somebody PLEASE tell me about the finishing process of Jin Di Sugi. I am in year 12 at Christian Brothers' High School, Lewisham and currently learning Industrial Technology: Timber and preparing for my Major Work this year in 2012. I have done my research on this process, and there is very little on it! I encountered this beautiful finish as I was reading a Fine Woodworking magazine, and it briefly explained what it was. The pictures given were just amazing and it got me excited. I felt a sense of originality, due to the fact that not many people know about the finish, thus, giving me more marks

Please guys, I really need your help on this process. I want to know what the best timber to use on it would be. Also, looking at this video by John Scott Bradstreet, Suji Wood Finish - YouTube , at around 5:03, John puts the timber in the sunlight, to allow the audience(myself) see the grain texture. Now this is what really got me interested, but then again I'm not sure... Does the grain stick out??? When I mean by stick out, I mean, if you run your hand across the grain, will it be bumpy? I've seen some beautiful antique timber projects before and it amazes me because the grain is exposed. So, is it exposed or an illusion? Finally, at around 5:43, what does he coat it with? It's just beautiful. I would appreciate all the help and research given, guys. Thanks,

Antonio Saleh

Antonio

are you committed to actually building a finished proiduct for your Industrial Technology: Timber ?
the reason I ask is my understanding is that completing a finished article is optional and that as many or more marks can be earned through the reasearch and prototyping stages of teh product development.

with that said, if this finishing process attracts you, rather than trying to get it right in one hit, why don't you document a process wherein you experiment with different timbers and different techniques -- sand blasting, charing, etc -- till you get a timber, method you're happy with and present the successful PROCESS as part of your final work

[Antonio Saleh]

I have to do experementation/testing anyway, but I still need to finish the project. I'm doing a federal Inlay table with Jin Di Sugi finish and other various processes, including dovetailing, inlaying etc. I just need to know the wood used, oil used, and a distinct demonstration outlining HOW TO DO IT. Your help is most appreciated,

Antonio.

[ian]

I have to do experementation/testing anyway, but I still need to finish the project. I'm doing a federal Inlay table with Jin Di Sugi finish and other various processes, including dovetailing, inlaying etc. I just need to know the wood used, oil used, and a distinct demonstration outlining HOW TO DO IT. Your help is most appreciated,

Antonio.

OK. give it a go with Douglas Fir (Oregon) or Western Red Cedar -- both exhibit distinctive grain with early and late wood

oil -- probably any low volitile oil will do.
Metho is probably too volitile
Kerosene probably has too much odor
Cooking oil is possibly too viscous
Try with a VERY SMALL quantity of mineral turps. Work outside, Brush it on, Make sure the container is sealed before striking a match to light the charing burner

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but to my aesthetic, Federal and Inlay don't go with Jin Di Sugi
also, getting the vertical veneer just so on a Federal piece and doing the Inlay will be demanding enough without recourse to an exercise in exotic wood texturing

[Des.K.]

Hi Antonio

I can't help you with the actual finishing process, but I'll try with a bit of background for you.

Jindai-sugi (神代杉) can be broadly translated as sugi (cedar) from the age of mythology. Jin-di sugi is how this term seems to have been transliterated into English in the late 1800s or early 1900s.

In English google searches, jindai sugi is often used for Cryptomeria japonica. Cryptomeria japonica is actually Japanese cedar.

Jindai sugi is sugi that has been deeply buried by volcanic ash and soil for many hundreds if not thousands of years, and has become partially fossilised without decaying. The action of the heat and soil and chemicals within the soil over the centuries on the different grain densities and hardness is what gives it its wonderful colour and texture.

Using the blowtorch and the brush in the video seems to be simply hastening this process. I dare say any grainy softwoods would be worth experimenting on.

If you do a google search with the following Japanese characters, you will find some wonderful photos of jindai sugi. Unfortunately it will all be in Japanese, and nothing on the actual finishing process you're after, but good for a bit of background.

神代杉とは

Des

[Antonio Saleh]

I was hoping, actually, that I use the jin di sugi finish on the carcase, and apply a contrasting inlay. Also, is it possible to use the jin di sugi process on lathed legs? Finally, in my opinion, I believe that only 1 burn and brush (in the jin di sugi process) is plenty, because it gives that beautiful brown look. I don't want ebony, I want a warm brown. Do you have ANY videos?! ANY! please! ahahahha, much appreciated,

Antonio.

[Antonio Saleh]

Also, thanks heaps for the input Des. Quick question to the both of you... What timber is being used here? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CLvXUcOM-U]Suji Wood Finish - YouTube[/ame]

[ian]

Antonio
the following is written in the belief that the responders to questions on these forums are not supposed to do all the research, design and experimentation your HSC project requires

I was hoping, actually, that I use the jin di sugi finish on the carcase, and apply a contrasting inlay.

think about what texture this approach will present
Traditional Federal furniture has very strong verticle patterns -- the carcass of your piece is presumably constructed with horizontal members

is it possible to use the jin di sugi process on lathed legs?

how does the grain pattern on a turned leg differ from that on a flat surfaced?

[Des.K.]

It says sugi wood process, so possibly cedar. Why don't you ask him in the YouTube comment section?

Des

[Antonio Saleh]

Yes but it is a forum in which people assist you by researching and presenting me with helpful information. Also, would it be wrong to label it Federal? If so, what should it be called? And about the lathed leg, you have a point there ahahaha! I just had a feeling that it might be different, but anyway... Thanks for the ongoing help, hope you can keep updating me,

Antonio.

[Antonio Saleh]

To Des: I did ask him but he hasn't replied, plus, he added the video in 2010, recieved a fair amount of views, but the problem is, it's only got 2 comments(mine included), hence why he hasn't checked it for ages (I assume anyway),

Antonio.

[ian]

Also, thanks heaps for the input Des. Quick question to the both of you... What timber is being used here? Suji Wood Finish - YouTube

my guess is Western Red Cedar
the board he is demonstarting on appears very light, which would equate to WRC
the grain is like what I've previously seen on plantation grown WRC

[Antonio Saleh]

Beautiful! Thanks for the input Ian. I had a feeling it was WRC because I took a ride down to the local timber n hardware shop and WRC took my eye! Beautiful grain texture, beautiful colour once done this sugi process and overall not too heavy! Cheers Ian,

Antonio.