Shed Advice or input Please

[PeTeR1810]

Hello all,
Well after 1 ½ years of planning, soil testing, 3 engineering plans, two council applications and numerous discussions I have come to the conclusion that I have been wasting my time and have started a slab on ground tin shed from a company yet to be determined.

Basically the delay has been that we did not want to put a tin shed against the side of the house for atheistic reasons, and were therefore trying to design a slab that a timber frame Garage that I could clad with Fibre cement or cement boards that look like timber cladding.

So far we are in the hole for 3k for all of the planning and revisions to plans (at the suggestion of a few concreters in order to reduce the costs). The cheapest quote excluding earth works hovered around the 18K mark for a 10m x 6.5m slab with footings etc and went as high as 25k. I am by no means knowledgeable in all of the ins and outs of the concreting world but this price remained unattainable for now.

We have therefore decided to go with a tin shed. Shed use is for 2 cars with a separated section enclosed (6.5m x 4m ) for a small workshop

1. Can I use the frame of the shed only and clad it in FC sheeting on the outside and inside with causing the structure to fall down? We would like to render the outside to match the house.
2. How can I line the ceilings of the shed?

Basically I would prefer to use timber studs and FC sheeting as cladding and only use the roof and trusses in the kit. Will the slab on ground hold this weight?

Am I kidding myself and should just do the tin shed?

Thanks for any and all input.

Peter

PS I have read through all 8 pages of this forum on Sheds...Its great

Currently up to page 63 of 97 of the Show us ya shed! post

[BobL]

1. Can I use the frame of the shed only and clad it in FC sheeting on the outside and inside with causing the structure to fall down?
Basically I would prefer to use timber studs and FC sheeting as cladding and only use the roof and trusses in the kit. Will the slab on ground hold this weight?

Am I kidding myself and should just do the tin shed?

If you are driving car on your slab it will definitely be able to support a stud wall and FC sheeting both externally and for cladding. If it was me I would use gyprock internally including the ceiling. If you intend to use the shed frame and kit as supplied for a metal clad shed you will have to add more studs to clad/line with an FC or gyprock.

[Master Splinter]

You'd get more mileage out of your question by posting it in the renovation forum

[Vernonv]

1. Can I use the frame of the shed only and clad it in FC sheeting on the outside and inside with causing the structure to fall down? We would like to render the outside to match the house.

I would say that you WON'T (easily) be able to do this. Often the steel cladding forms part of the bracing of the structure and to change that would require additional engineering and possibly a complete redesign of the shed structure.

[Shedblog Au]

If you request a prefabricated steel building (shed) from a supplier and request roof only design (not roof only materials) then the structure should be designed to stand without the side and end wall battens and cladding. (often with the use of a couple of bays of rod cross bracing. You could then frame it out with studwork if you desire and clad with what ever materials you prefer. There are also shed companies that produce kits with stud frame walls that can be clad with a selection of various materials.

[banjoping]

First off, those concrete prices are ridiculous. Even if it is a substantially engineered raft slab that is simply outrageous. In the shed game we would charge on average about $65 + GST per metre square for a finished slab (and that is the cost to the client with our builders mark up included).

I recognise that if it is an engineered slab for a live-in or addition to a dwelling it will have different engineering (perimeter beams, waffle footings at appropriate spacings, heavier mesh and trench mesh as per BCA and Australian Standards) but in my experience even these types of slabs in reactive soils are at most twice this basic cost.

One of those quotes is nearly $385 per metre squared!! Unless you have extremely reactive soils or major access issues (like having to concrete pump over a two storey house) that is pure highway robbery.

1. The shed frame is set up to carry vertical metal cladding. Hence the spans (perhaps up to 1.2m internally) will be beyond what most FC will span. Also, if you intend to have the fibre cement mimic timber cladding I assume you would be cladding it horizontally. This is not such a major issue. When we clad corry horiztonally we simply add ceiling battens (20mm) vertically to the existing horizontal wall tophat batten. So you could add these at the appropriate centres to carry the F/C (assuming it is appropriate for external use). Obviously, you also have to either adjust the shed frame span, or the slab to accommodate this extra 20 mm all around the shed.

Assuming the shed is designed well this cladding will not make it “fall down”. Most of the forces on a shed are uplift forces, ie trying to put the shed into the next paddock. If you have ever sent this happen it is quite spectacular!

The previous comments about the cladding adding some bracing is also true. Perhaps the simple way around this is to have the shed designed and engineered as “open” on all sides, ie without it’s normal steel cladding. I would however be adding as much bracing as possible to assist the structure in minimising movement. Fixed angle bracing particularly.

Obviously the safest and probably easiest way is to do the whole thing out of metal or timber stud frame. The studs could be set up to carry the F/C at appropriate centres, the inside is ready to gyprock and you have flat roof trusses ready to add ceiling batten to and take the ceiling gyprock. You do not have to “create a ceiling” like in a shed, or box around rafters/columns.

If you stay with trying to create a ceiling in a shed I would definitely recommend adding batten under the rafter line (for a raked ceiling). Perhaps replicate the roof battens (typically tophat65) at appropriate centres for gyprock. I say go heavy because metal sheds are designed to move (they are lightweight steel structures that return to their original position due to metal memory) and you obviously want to minimise this movement if gyprocking it. The place where there is the most movement will be the roof. Hence, go heavy.

Alternatively notch a c section (assuming it is a c section shed) that goes across the span to create a flat ceiling joist. This will probably need a couple of droppers down from the c section rafter to stop any downward deflection. Then add battens to the underside to create a flat ceiling.

Hope this helps.

[BobL]

First off, those concrete prices are ridiculous. Even if it is a substantially engineered raft slab that is simply outrageous. In the shed game we would charge on average about $65 + GST per metre square for a finished slab (and that is the cost to the client with our builders mark up included). . . .

I think you will find he is talking about the whole shed along with a slab

[PeTeR1810]

No...That was the price for the slab only.

I was so surprised at the costs that I went through the drawings as supplied and costed out all of the mesh, formwork and cement...right down to the little yellow risers for the mesh etc...I costed it at $4500 in materials with a $800 excavation fee.

The variance that I get in Quotes from builders and contractors here on the Gold Coast scares the S***T out of me. They quote on the same plans but there is was $12, 000 difference. This is the same with any of the work that I have tried to get done.

When I find a good Tradie I stick with them… Found a great sparky I no longer get quotes I just send him the plans and he gets started. Same with an excavator operator.

I have ended up going for a slab on ground version which will cost me $8000 ish. My site is on one acre…slab is at the front and there is a 500- 600mm fall. NO site access issues.

My estimates are based on $200/m3 concrete and Bunning’s prices for mesh and other items …..This still comes in at about $2500 in materials. Excavator maybe two float charges and a 10 hours excavation another $1000.

7cubes of concrete at $200 = $1400

I have decided to go with a steel frame company in Currumbin on the coast at a price of $2800 for 6.5m x 10m x 2.7m steel frame with panels erected ready to go. They said that If I supply them with the cladding material specs then everything would be ok

I figure another $3500 in Cladding …Styia on the outside $65 per 325/4.8m sheet
Another 3000 for the roof and guttering need to get someone to do this especially facia and guttering


A shed company price was around $19,000 without slab work but erected in standard materials

I am disillusioned with the cost of building anything but I really want that Shed J


Thanks for all of the input

Peter

[banjoping]

No...That was the price for the slab only.

Yeah that is what I thought, ridiculous.

I have ended up going for a slab on ground version which will cost me $8000 ish. My site is on one acre…slab is at the front and there is a 500- 600mm fall. NO site access issues.

If that is the best quote then I guess you've got to live with it. I have noticed that for whatever reason concrete works tends to cost a lot more on the east coast than over here in the west- perhaps someone more local to you can comment on those costs.

I have decided to go with a steel frame company in Currumbin on the coast at a price of $2800 for 6.5m x 10m x 2.7m steel frame with panels erected ready to go. They said that If I supply them with the cladding material specs then everything would be ok

That seems fine assuming it is metal stud frame and trusses?

A shed company price was around $19,000 without slab work but erected in standard materials.

The rough rule of thumb we use is about $250.00 per square metre + GST for a finished shed on slab. So 6.5 x 10 x 250 = $16,250 plus GST. I note however that your price does not include the slab. It's not as outrageous as that initial concrete pricing was but is still fairly exxy. Again, perhaps someone local can comment.

[BobL]

I thought my 42 m^2 of 4" reinforced shed flooring was expensive at $2200 and that had to all be barrowed over a distance of about 50 metres down a narrow side alley.

Maybe gold coast builders think that people's wallets are full of gold?