New To Restoring Handsaws

[Pac man]

So, Morbius, you are my major competition in the saw section on eBay! I still haven't "won" an auction yet.

When I do I might consider having a look at this:

Handsaws: Tune-up, Setup & More (Download) | ShopWoodworking

Yes, it is spending more money (again) but you get the download straight away.

I would suggest there is another suspect located in WA but I couldn't be sure

[pmcgee]

So, Morbius, you are my major competition in the saw section on eBay! I still haven't "won" an auction yet.

When I do I might consider having a look at this:

Handsaws: Tune-up, Setup & More (Download) | ShopWoodworking

Yes, it is spending more money (again) but you get the download straight away.

I would suggest there is another suspect located in WA but I couldn't be sure

Probably not ... I'm more in the "paying to bring a few months purchases home" phase ...

I did get the 'rusty eight' ... but it was a buy-it-now and no other takers.
... but I did make the mistake of looking online this morning a bit but in general, I'm very happy with the ones I have now, thank you.


Homesy ... that is very cool ... I bought the dvd (actually that is his second one - the first one is the sharpening one)
The download is cheaper and sounds like a fine idea ... except for one caution ...
I bought 2 episodes of St. Roy's tv show $5 each ... on the 24th December ... and still haven't been able to download them - or had a solution or refund from them yet. A bit frustrating.


Cheers,
Paul

[homesy135]

We'll have to get FenceFurniture to organise a bulk buy of the Grammercy Saw Vice (and Holdfasts)! Or buy one and share it around. They do look cool. If you click the link to see the sharpening DVD page, it looks like Ron Herman uses the Grammercy Saw Vice.



Aha, clever marketing! I thought after reading the blurb about the saw tune up DVD download it was an all encompassing treatise on handsaw maintenance including sharpening.

Handsaws: Tune-up, Setup & More (Download) | ShopWoodworking



You were quite right, Paul, the Sharpening DVD download is a separate purchase. It is also $15:

Sharpen Your Handsaws (Download) | ShopWoodworking

[IanW]

Where can we get good saw files from, and what do we need to look for?

What to look for John? A decent quality file that doesn't lose all it's teeth at the first stroke on a saw (this is no exaggeration, I've had it happen more than once! )

Look up the saw filing treatise mentioned above. On page one he gives you a table of file sizes for corresponding saw tpi. The larger sizes will be available in some local hardware stores, and a better range still should be found at tool stores that deal in trade tools, but you will generally not find the smalller sizes so easily. They can be ordered from Lie-Nielsen Australia (no financial or other interest, just a source that I have bought files from myself), and probably other supppliers that I don't know about. For small teeth (18tpi & finer), I use needle files, which are available from Australian Jewellers Supplies (AJS) who have branches in all mainland capital cities, plus other suppliers. The ones AJS sell are Swiss made & of good quality. Use the finest cut (#4) for saw sharpening. Don't even think about trying the ultra-cheap needle files you see in those red plastic packs, they just don't cut the mustard (let alone saw steel)..........

Cheers,

[Berlin]

I saw (or read perhaps) a Paul Sellers snippet where he swears by Bahco saw files and says avoid the Nicholsons at all costs.

I just bought some Grobets but I haven't had a chance to test them yet.

[Morbius]

Here's the first picture - not much on detail just the saws all together.

Craig's Bargain Saws 01.jpg

I'll go out to the shed after the kids go to sleep and measure up the first saw and post some details with a picture to figure out what it is.

Craig

[Morbius]

This is the largest saw, marked "W. Tyzack Sons & Turner PLC . Sheffield.", it is 26 inches along the teeth with 6 teeth per inch.

W. Tyzack Sons & Turner PLC . Sheffield. 01.jpg The entire saw.

W. Tyzack Sons & Turner PLC . Sheffield. 02.jpg Just the handle.

What purpose was this saw designed for?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Craig

P.S. I am going to re-read some of the excellent advice I have already received and try to work it out myself as well.

[Morbius]

The names are actually quite meaningless - there is a tendency for tenon saws to be larger & longer tha dovetail saws, but that's about it. You are better off just thinking of them as devices to cut wood, & that there are 2 basic types, rip, for cutting along the grain (more or less) and crossscut, for going acrosss the grain (more or less). You choose a saw or saws that suit YOU, for the job in hand. The size & heft, the blade length, handle size, & overall weight, need to match your comfort zone. People vary enormously in what they prefer for the same basic task, which is why back saws came in so many sizes. I have yet to see any two people with the same set of saws.

Tooth pitch is the other important consideration. You need a minimum number of teeth engaged in the cut, or the saw will 'grab' (as demonstrated by any larger-toothed saws when starting a cut). The number is usually stated as around 5-6 teeth, but it isn't exact, because you can get away with coarser than optimum if you are practised, and the hardness or softness of the wood makes a big difference, too. Conversely, you can have too many teeth in the cut. If you are using a fine-toothed saw to cut a wide board, the sawdust quickly fills the gullets at the start of a stroke, and prevents efficient cutting. Again, there is no hard & fast rule, it's a matter of getting the feel of your saws & deciding what you like best for any given task. When you've been at it a while, you'll collect a set of saws, but its highly likely they will be quite different from my set....

Cheers,

Ian,

It's a long saw, with 6 tpi, so I am guessing it is a rip saw. The Tyzack Tool Catalogue didn't shed much light on this.

Craig

[IanW]

Craig - your saw is almost certainly a rip saw, used for cutting thickish & longish planks. The way to confirm this is to take a close look at the tops of the teeth. A ripsaw is filed so the the tops of the teeth form a flat, straight ege, like a chisel. Crossscut saws are filed with "fleam" so the teeth come to a sharp point.

In my world, saws that look like this one were just called 'hand saws' & the specific type (crosscut or rip) specified. However, I notice a tendency for people to refer to them now as "panel saws" which to me are shorter saws carried in portable tool chests, etc. I was thinking more about "back saws", i.e. the ones with a steel or brass spine in my last post, when I was burbling about tenon & dovetails saws.

Cheers,

[Morbius]

Ian,
I'll' read up on fleam shortly and post any additional info about the fleam on the saw I can work out.

I'll also post the next saw tomorrow night.

Thanks for the info,

Craig

[pmcgee]

This is the largest saw, marked "W. Tyzack Sons & Turner PLC . Sheffield.", it is 26 inches along the teeth with 6 teeth per inch.

W. Tyzack Sons & Turner PLC . Sheffield. 02.jpg

Tyzack is (was?) an english company - as is Spear & Jackson, and their products look basically identical - must be pure coincidence.

Thanks for the Tyzack catalogue link ... that would be earlier in the 20th century ... and again look like contemporary S&Js.

I have a 26" and a smaller S&J that look like this ... I'm guessing 1960s.?
Disston brought out a "D100" in the 60s (according to the Disstonian website) ...


It's the marketing departments dictating the handle shape, the narrow saw blade (compared to c1900) and the back angle at the heel ... thinking "Buck Rogers" I think.

Cheers,
Paul

[Morbius]

Ian,
I'll' read up on fleam shortly and post any additional info about the fleam on the saw I can work out.

I'll also post Saw #2 tomorrow night.

Thanks for the info,

Craig

Fleam isn't a word I use in general conversation around the office, so I had to do a bit of reading. Turns out I meant "Rake". It looks like the rake on Saw #1 is about 8-10 degrees, so I guess that puts it definitely in the "Rip" category.

Sorry for the delay editing - had to walk out to the shed a couple of times to remeasure the thing!

Looking closely, the saw has a very consistent set to the teeth and there is a definite fleam, but the teeth are so small I have nothing handy with which to measure the angle. I am guessing about 15 degrees tops.

Craig

[Morbius]

This saw had no markings that I could see, with a fairly generic handle.
It is 26 inches long with 4 tpi and the set of the teeth is a little wonky as though done by hand or while half cut. The rake appears to vary from 90 degrees to nearly 45 degrees on some teeth.

Unidentified Saw 01.jpg View of the whole saw.

Unidentified Saw 02.jpg Closeup of the handle.

The 4tpi leads to to suspect again that this is a rip saw. Anyone in a position here to set me straight?

Craig

[IanW]

.... with 4 tpi and the set of the teeth is a little wonky as though done by hand or while half cut. The rake appears to vary from 90 degrees to nearly 45 degrees on some teeth.

A (very) poor sharpening job would be my first guess, unless there is some arcane tooth profile for some very special appliaction that I haven't yet come across... A more 'relaxed' rake at the toe to help with starting is ok, but the rest ogf the teeeth should have a reasonably consistent rake angle, or the saw will not run very well. That handle looks like it either came on a very cheap saw to begin with, or it's someone's first attempt at a handle replacement job.

.... The 4tpi leads to to suspect again that this is a rip saw. Anyone in a position here to set me straight?

'Twould be my first guess. Not many hand saws for crosscutting have 4 tpi, but I'm sure there were a few eithet made that way or converted for special purposes. Like I say, the only way to tell for sure is from the shape of those teeth....

Cheers,

[Morbius]

Thanks Ian!

Saws have always been a mystery to me, but the last 48 hours have been an education.
I'll post another one up tomorrow and have a go at identifying it. At least I know what a rake and a fleam are now

Craig