Can't Decide, need help

[Maxheadroom]

Hi Everyone,

I need some help with my next boat building choice. I live on the Gold Coast Australia so I will be sailing in the Broardwater mainly ,sometimes up at Moreton Bay and in good weather, offshore for a bit. I am looking at the Coresound 17 by BandB Yacht Designs and The Periwinkle 17 by Ross at Bayside Wooden Boats. I will often be sailing 2 up and sometimes by myself. All advice regarding these two designs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Max.

[PAR]

Both are good boats, but they do different things. The CS-17 will be faster on all points, but not by much (in modest wind strengths) if the lug cat ketch rig is employed on the Periwinkle 17. The Periwinkle 17 has a lot more charm the the CS-17, but also would be a more difficult build. I think both are available as kits (I know the CS-17 is), which could ease building difficulty to a degree. The Periwinkle 17 is essentially a raid boat, though a little cuddy is possible. The same is true of the CS-17, but the plans don't include a cuddy, though I know of a few that have a semi hard dodger, that does the same. Both have free standing rigs, so setup is easy, though more spars on the Periwinkle 17.

I built a CS-17 a few years ago and made several changes, some to pretty her up, others to suit practical issues. I think many of these changes could be incorporated into Ross's fine design too. If looks and style are your big motivator, than the Periwinkle 17 has it hands down (though B&B Yachts has the Lap Wing which is quite similar). If good full plane mode performance is desired, the CS-17 would be the ticket. Personally I don't like the large aft deck, small fore deck arrangement of the Periwinkle 17, preferring the larger fore deck of the CS-17, but I'm not you. I understand why Ross did it this way, it's just my taste I guess.

I think the CS-17 offers a modest performance advantage and much more protection in deep water, then the relatively open bow of the Periwinkle 17, but you could put on the cuddy, which will seal up the forward section quite a bit, with a slight lose of windward ability, from the extra windage.

It's tough one Max, flipping a coin might help. When your favorite loses, you can do best out of three . . .

[Maxheadroom]

Hi Par,

Thanks so much for your thoughts on the matter. Having already built 5 boats in the past and the last one being a Spindrift 12 for my Son, one of B and B's designs and I love the look and performance of that boat I am kind of swaying towards the CS 17 over the Periwinkle. Then there is the problem of knowing Ross personally and having spoken to him on many occasions. If you think the CS would be a faster and safer boat than the Periwinkle, I think I have made up my mind. Thanks so much once again and if anyone else has any advice regarding the above, please feel free to put in your 2 bobs worth.
Thank you all.

Max.

[PAR]

Again, the relitvly open bow of the Periwinkle 17, makes it inherently saver in deep water, but you can place the cuddy on her and gain the additional protection necessary. In this case, the Periwinkle 17 might have an advantage, in combination with it's large aft deck, compared to the CS-17. I think the Periwinkle 17 is a far better looking boat and it maybe possible, to have Ross draw up a Bermudian cat ketch, which would improve her upwind ability a bit, equaling some of the sailing differences. Given this, the Periwinkle 17 has the edge in my mind.

I'd still want to enclose the centerboard case and use my self contained board pivot technique, add some roundness to the transom and I prefer side seating, rather than thwarts, but these are just personal preferences on my part and all easily done on just about any design.

[ogr006]

Hi,
Have a look at www.trailawayboatkits.com.au. Rob has the Core Sound 17 in kit form. Compare it to the Redfin 520 and 22 also in kit form which offer an enclosed cabin.
John.

[Glug]

Hi Max,

Think about the B&B Bay River skiff instead of the Core Sound. It is easier to build as it has no side decks and the bow construction is easier. A Polish friend of mine built one a few years ago and has sailed it in Raid Finland a few times and in the Gdansk Bay, similar conditions to where you will sail. The supposed advantage of side decks keeping water out when heeled a lot has never been needed as the boat is so stable. I have sailed it with him. Big comfortable cockpit.

Cheers,

Peter Lord

[engblom]

I have never sailed a ketch, and I actually have a question that might fit here as you are talking about boats with ketch rig.

If you sail single handed, how do you handle two sheets? To me it sounds like you would need three hands and serious multitasking to sheet both sails and keep the tiller if you want both sails to be at optimal angle for best performance.

Or do you just lock (and rarely touch) the rear sail and only do continuous adjustment to the front sail and let the lower centre of effort and bigger sail area take care of the lost performance?

[Glug]

I have never sailed a ketch, and I actually have a question that might fit here as you are talking about boats with ketch rig.

If you sail single handed, how do you handle two sheets? To me it sounds like you would need three hands and serious multitasking to sheet both sails and keep the tiller if you want both sails to be at optimal angle for best performance.

Or do you just lock (and rarely touch) the rear sail and only do continuous adjustment to the front sail and let the lower centre of effort and bigger sail area take care of the lost performance?

Hi Engblom,

I have an Apple 16, a cat ketch dinghy with balance lugsail main and spritboom mizzen. I trim by the mainsail first all the time and adjust the mizzen sheet when the boat is on course. Sometimes when bearing away from the wind quickly I let go the main sheet and then as fast as I can, release the mizzen sheet to relieve the weather helm which develops after letting out the mainsail. I do the fine adjustment of the mizzen after the main is set right. The main (13 SqM) always has priority over the mizzen (5 SqM).

Where do you live in Finland? I am organizing Raid Finland this year (6-13 July) starting and finishing on Mossala Island and if you are interested in seeing some small open boats in action or even joining in, let me know.

Peter

[engblom]

I might come there to look at the boats! I live about 2 hours (by car) away. Sadly I do not have a boat myself at this moment. Do you have more information at this stage about the route you are going to sail? I am mostly asking as there is a chance you are going to pass by close to where I am living.

[PAR]

A cat ketch is very easy to sail and a handy rig to employ in a beachable craft. In practice the two sheets aren't any bother. A conventional Bermudian sloop has two sheets as well, plus other bits of string to pull, that the Bermudian sprit boom cat ketch doesn't need.

[Jazzman]

Hi Max,

Think about the B&B Bay River skiff instead of the Core Sound. It is easier to build as it has no side decks and the bow construction is easier. A Polish friend of mine built one a few years ago and has sailed it in Raid Finland a few times and in the Gdansk Bay, similar conditions to where you will sail. The supposed advantage of side decks keeping water out when heeled a lot has never been needed as the boat is so stable. I have sailed it with him. Big comfortable cockpit.

Cheers,

Peter Lord

Hi Peter,
Is that the 17' version? Does it plane?
Thanks, Brad.

[Glug]

Hi Brad,

I have sailed the B&B 17 footer Bay River skiff. We have always had 3 or 4 people on board when I sailed in her, and the boat is not a lightweight.So the only time we planed was on a beam reach with a helpful swell, hit 8+ knots. Ask over at the B&B boats forum.

Peter

[Jazzman]

Hi Peter,
I've just realised you built the lovely 5 strake Campion apple!
It looks beautiful!
In the Finnish Raid, which was faster? I think your boat?
Any more pics? I've seen it on Tom's site.
I can't work out which model you built.

Sorry to get off thread a bit- I can do this in a PM if that's better.

(although a great boat to consider also, Maxheadroom!)