Knife set

[NeilS]

I am unsure of the grit size. I purchased it from Peacock Saw Sharpeners (who mainly sharpen saw blades) at least 15 years ago. It is small, about 70mm x 25mm and in a little leather pocket pouch. I have used it for the final hone on my knife for years. I actually have 2 and I always carry one when I go out west/out back.

Greg

If you were using it for a final hone I expect about #600, although they do now go up to #1200 (eg Stu's Atoma #1200)

My dad used to say always carry a good knife and a good rope and you can overcome any situation you are in ... it appears to be true.

My grandfather also added fencing wire to that short list...

[Mutawintji]

oopps ... Gotta get back to wire-jerking or i iz in trouble.

The process your referring to Paul is called 'wringing' And is commonly used in machining.

WIKI HERE

An important feature of gauge blocks is that they can be joined together with very little dimensional uncertainty. The blocks are joined by a sliding process called wringing, which causes their ultraflat surfaces to cling together.

Greg

[Mutawintji]

Haaa .... Neil, so true.

Amongst many other uses ... a length of fencing wire is the best thing to carry if there are snakes about. I just bend a handle on it and carry it thru the bush. I would never kill a snake unless I was attacked. So far so good .. but up at my place the little browns get reeeely aggressive in mating season and for a slippery creature like that fencing wire is a perfect whip.

Greg

[NeilS]

Neil

You have touched on an issue here that I alluded to at the end of my original post: The natural waterstone versus the man-made waterstone.

Paul - I would like to take a rain check on this one. The topic deserves more time than I have today, but I will get back to it.

In the mean time, I know that there are others on this forum who are natural waterstone users who might be willing to share their experiences and views on the topic, although they might not be following this particular (kitchen knife) thread.

There was a previous threads on this topic. Maybe revive that thread or start a new one if you think there is more mileage to cover on the topic. If for no other reason, with the five years that have passed since that thread, the previous contributors may have further refined their views with further experience and there may also be others who have not yet contributed theirs. I would be interested myself in any updated or new thoughts on the topic.

Natural Japanese waterstones

Started by wilburpan, 19th Sep 2008 08:06 PM


Neil

[NeilS]

I was going to revive that previous thread on Natural Japanese Waterstones, but it didn’t let me, so I have started a new thread, Natural Japanese waterstones update

It would still be useful to read through the old thread first if you are interested in the topic.

[Bushmiller]

I was going to revive that previous thread on Natural Japanese Waterstones, but it didn’t let me, so I have started a new thread, Natural Japanese waterstones update

It would still be useful to read through the old thread first if you are interested in the topic.

Thanks Neil

I had a quick skim through, but will have a more detailed look later.

Regards
Paul

[rsser]

Choice has just published a knife comparo of 20cm Cooks knives. Ratings were for handling (70%), initial edge (15%) and blunting (15%).

The best performer on blunting was the Scanpan Classic (rated at 70%); the worst was Mundial (45%). The blunting test 'involved each knife being subjected to 50 slicing strokes into an aluminium rod using a purpose-built mechanical burnishing machine'

The best bang for buck was a Victorinox. It made the top 7 and only cost $66.

Other brands tested included Shun, Global, Tamahagane, Tojiro, Wusthof and Zwilling.

[NeilS]

Thanks Ern for the Choice summary.

I expect that none of my 'good' Japanese knives would cope with being sliced against an aluminium rod once, let alone 50 times. The edge would have shattered almost immediately rather than becoming blunt. I guess that is the difference between a knife at 57 HRC and one at 64 HRC. On the other hand, I expect a 57 HRC knife would have to be resharpened many many times compared to a 64 HRC knife when used to cut food rather than aluminium rods.

Of course the aluminium rod were probably used to simulate bone, in which case I should think seriously about getting a Scanpan Classic for that occasional purpose and to save the edges on my good Japanese knives. I could then throw away the old junk knives/cleavers that I have kept for that purpose, which have become space wasters.

Neil
.

[rsser]

Yeah, the blunting test would make a mess of my JP slicing knives too.

That said, I wonder how fair a test it was if they didn't standardise the bevel geometry. All other things equal, a thick blade/obtuse bevel angle is going to perform best.

[Bushmiller]

Yeah, the blunting test would make a mess of my JP slicing knives too.

That said, I wonder how fair a test it was if they didn't standardise the bevel geometry. All other things equal, a thick blade/obtuse bevel angle is going to perform best.

Ern

Good point (oops sorry). I'm not sure that their criteria for judging was correct or maybe for most people it was.

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

So, just while we're on the subject, I thought I'd revisit sharpening my Wusthofs on the stones again.

The first go a few weeks ago didn't seem to change much, if anything (1k stone then 6k). Subsequently, and with the aid of a 30x loupe, I worked out that this was due to a few factors:

• the angle I was bevelling them at was about 5-8* each side (deliberate), but they were previously sharpened exclusively on a Steel, with a significantly higher angle. Therefore the sharpness didn't improve 'coz I simply hadn't got to the edge yet - still had to knock more off the back end of the bevel to get to around 5-8* at the edge. DUH!
• even though I can hold the knife fairly steady when working it backwards and forwards down the stone, it still rocks enough to yield a curved bevel (hence why I was talking about a jig, earlier). Furthermore, swapping to the other side of the bevel means changing to a left handed grip, and I'm not ambidextrous, so this side suffers even more.
• I hadn't quite wrapped my head around sharpening through the curve - the tip seems to need a steeper angle, or the stroke on the stone needs to be curved to match the curve of the blade, OR SUMMINT!

So, I got to thinking about the jiggy-jig, as one tends to do. Last weekend I sharpened a couple of Joinery Floats (which turned out to be the same Rc hardness as the file I was trying to sharpen them with instead of 6-8 lower like they were before). I had rigged up a strong strip magnet to the edge of a piece of 3x1, and clamped the timber in the vise with the magnet sitting well proud of the vise. Then put the float on the magnet and file away (for far too long....).

What I wanted to achieve with knife sharpening was a consistent angle, and no rocking. I figured that if I tried this magnet get-up it may allow me to achieve that. I reasoned that the stone should be easier to hold steady because of its weight, and easier to hold at the right angle because of its size and shape. Also, I thought that running the stone along the edge, instead of across it (except where some heavy work may be required) that I would get a more consistent angle because of the length of the stroke. Hey, all the Samurai I've seen do it that way, including Ken Wattanabe (in The Last Samurai - thoroughly excellent film, btw).






As it turned out this was the case- it suited me better - and I was able to get better pressure happening, and a quicker job to boot. The polishing with the 6k stone in particular was really good this way.

Still plenty more to learn, and better results to get, but all the knives done this way made very short work of some softish cherry tomatoes (there even harder to penetrate cleanly and without squish when they are soft). There was no deformation of the fruit shape at all as I cut. In fact I could tell on the big Wusthof that a part of the bevel just at the back of the curve was still not "there" yet, and no doubt loupe inspection will reveal all.

[Bushmiller]

Brett

When I bought my first diamond plate (probably nearly 20 years ago) at an agricultural field day, the guy demonstrating sharpening talked about removing the "shoulder," which is basically when the bevel becomes too steep.

I believe that when we put the knife on the stone we refine that edge or "shoulder" and make it more receptive to taking the final sharp edge to which we all strive.

Thanks for putting up the pix.

Regards
Paul

[NeilS]

Interesting solution Brett. At least you get to know how a sharp knife cuts.

Just two thoughts.

With the wet face of the stone upside down you are going to lose more valuable grit that way, but that may not be an issue for you.

Working along the edge rather than across (or diagonally across) it will produce a stepped instead of a micro-serrated edge. I understand that a stepped edge is more fragile than a serrated edge, which will not last as long nor perform so well on slicing cuts. But, I imagine that you could adjust your method to overcome that.

Neil

[FenceFurniture]

Hi Neil

I had considered the grit loss and gravity, but it's so tiny that it doesn't matter at all. You can see on the black granite the drops of grit from several sharpenings.

I had also considered the loss of serrations, but figure that this is better than the rolled bevel I was getting (through not-so-good-technique I'm afraid). That was tantamount to a stepped bevel anyway I guess.

I had also seen a Youtube vid of a Japanese person (with a bandaided finger ) doing the same sort of stroke (along the edge) but inverted to my technique. I reckoned that the bandaid was a good sign

I did try some strokes going across the edge but it tended to make the knife slide across the magnet. It works ok when just pushing the stone towards the edge only (but that will create a bigger burr).

Cheers
Brett

[rsser]

Using the DMT knife clamp to maintain the bevel angle while stroking the edge parallel to the stone long side (and sometimes a little skewed as well) clearly I must be getting steps too but I can't say I've noticed poorer performance.

Then again a side by side test would be the only way to be sure.

It might account for a little chipping out of the edge towards the gyutoh tip or that may have been a result of too much finger pressure there.