Timber for saw handles?

[IanW]

...Out of interest, how fine do you sand your handles before the Shellawax?.....

I sand to 400 grit, & before applying the Shellawax, go over the wood with 0000 steel wool, which cleans up the small bits of dust & fuzz from sanding, and gives maximum grain/figure exposure. One 'secret' with Shellawax is not to apply a heavy coat, or it won't buff well. An even, light coat rubbed in with a small piece of clean cloth works best for me. You have to get the surface quite warm, when buffing, hand-rubbing just won't achieve the same result.

...Do you have any preferred sanding technique?

Yeah - as little as possible!

I've never been in love with abrasives, but don't seem to be able to avoid the damn stuff completely, unfortunately. The basic shaping is done with coarse rasps (equivalent to 6 cut in Liogier range), followed by refining with a 9 cut, & a couple of grades of files. I then switch to scrapers (made from narrow scraps of saw plate). With some woods, you can virtually finish off the scrapers, but they leave tiny flat marks on rounded surfaces, which need blending, so I always have to resort to paper for the final stages. I like cloth-backed paper, which you can cut into ribbons for doing all those round bits. I may start with 180 grit, on the stubborn areas (where major grain-reversals occur), but it's usually possible to proceed very quickly, through 240, 320 then 400. As I said, it depends on the wood, some woods resist all the way, & you have to work forever to remove the scratches from the preceding grade, while on other woods, a few swipes seems to be enough...

Cheers,

[Berlin]

A cheapskates alternative for strips of cloth backed paper that does decent service is to run some masking tape down the back of garden variety sandpaper and rip/cut strips to required size ...not an amazing tip, I guess everyone has had to resort to that at some stage.

Matt

[Sawdust Maker]

A bit more progress

Dovetail handle is being shaped, using chisels, rasps, files and sandpaper. It's coming along and is starting to feel comfortable, slow process

dovetail handle_7901.jpg

I started the letting in process for the other two handles
I'm using a japanese blade as it's the closest I've on hand to the actual blade thickness

saw handles_7895.jpg

One is fine but the second broke when I was cutting the slot for the blade. I'm glad it happened now and not near finish or even when in use. The wood seems to have had a flaw in it, not seen from the surface. I've just enough timber left for another try, I hope. I'm hoping for a matched pair but fingers crossed

broke handle_7898.jpg

[IanW]

A....... the second broke when I was cutting the slot for the blade. I'm glad it happened now and not near finish or even when in use. The wood seems to have had a flaw in it, not seen from the surface.

Nick, are you using She-oak, as you said you intended to earlier? The pic of the handle is too dark for me to be sure, but if it's she-oak, I think you have unfortunately got a piece with the least-desirable grain orientation. It looks like your piece has the medullary rays running at 90 degrees to my preferred orientation. It's not simply looks, it's because those medullary rays are often weak points, & can indeed separate a bit within the wood, setting up a very weak spot, as you seem to have illustrated nicely. I understand you are stuck with the piece you have, but it would have been far better if you could have found a piece that is more nearly quarter cut. Anyways, fingers crossed that the last piece is sound.

Cheers,

[Sawdust Maker]

Nick, are you using She-oak, as you said you intended to earlier?

Yes

The pic of the handle is too dark for me to be sure, but if it's she-oak, I think you have unfortunately got a piece with the least-desirable grain orientation. It looks like your piece has the medullary rays running at 90 degrees to my preferred orientation.

The medullary rays seem to be running undesirably - I'll have to get them a sprint coach
I've just taken a couple of piccys of the offending piece of wood, so others can see what Ian is talking about

broke_7904.jpgbroken_7905.jpgbroken_7906.jpg

It's not simply looks, it's because those medullary rays are often weak points, & can indeed separate a bit within the wood, setting up a very weak spot, as you seem to have illustrated nicely.

I'm usually pretty good at demonstrating things which will go haywire

I understand you are stuck with the piece you have, but it would have been far better if you could have found a piece that is more nearly quarter cut. Anyways, fingers crossed that the last piece is sound.

Cheers,

The partially shaped handle seems to be standing up to the shaping treatment, We'll see how it goes ... I can always go to plan B (whatever that might be)
and I'm learning from the bit I've done so far

[IanW]

Hmmm, yes, your pictures show very clearly what I was blabbing about. Pity, I hate losing them at any stage, but it's better it happens before you put too much effort into them. This separation of the rays is a sporadic & unpredictable thing, provided the wood was dried carefully to begin with. Your other handle may hold up perfectly well, so don't lose heart. (But you have learnt to choose the next board for saw handles with great care! )

Cheers,

[Sawdust Maker]

... (But you have learnt to choose the next board for saw handles with great care! )

Cheers,

Damn I hate learning life's lessons the hard way

[IanW]

Damn I hate learning life's lessons the hard way

Who doesn't! Experience is not a good teacher, she always gives us the test before the lesson......

Cheers,

[Sawdust Maker]

Who doesn't! Experience is not a good teacher, she always gives us the test before the lesson......

Cheers,

Hmm

I tend to fail both tests, ie the one after the lesson as well,

... just to be double sure...

[Berlin]

Who doesn't! Experience is not a good teacher, she always gives us the test before the lesson......

Cheers,

Well said Yoda.

[IanW]

I s'pose I should have said Experience is not a kind teacher. The lesson itself is often good, it certainly makes its point, but often painfully........

Cheers,

[RayG]

Outch, that's an odd break,



I recall a discussion ( might have been on Sawmill Creek? ) where Mike Wenzloff said he preferred rift sawn timber for handles... ( I infer that rift sawn is 45 degrees off quarter sawn )

In any event, sometimes the gods are smiling, sometimes not so much.. and if you want to get academic about it.. here's a reference Success through Failure: The Paradox of Design: Henry Petroski: 9780691136424: Amazon.com: Books

Regards
Ray

[Sawdust Maker]

It just suddenly gave when I started the cut for the blade - on closer examination there may have been a slight void

Interesting book - I see it's in the local library

[Sawdust Maker]

A question on handle shapes

Why are some handles "closed" and some "open"?

eg Ian's 2nd v 1st handles depicted

[IanW]

A question on handle shapes...Why are some handles "closed" and some "open"?

Pretty much pure whim, Nick. I could waffle and say that the little tongue between the bottom of the grip and the cheeks adds to the structural integrity of the handle. It adds a little, so makes sense to include it on handles for bigger saws and those that are going to see 'vigorous use'. However, if you examine the grain direction that you end up with in the tongue in most cases, the greater proportion of it is short grain, so it isn't going to take much stress or strain. The frequency with which you find busted ones illustrates my point.

Saw handles are a pest because the only way to achieve a 'perfect' grain orientation is to have a chunk of wood with a 90 degree grain change in a sufficiently small area to match your handle (they do occur, but rarely). The forces a handle has to resist are pretty much all in the same direction, but the long axis of the grip & the cheeks are roughly 90 degrees to each other, which means you end up with short-grain either across the cheeks or across the grip. I think short-grain across the cheeks is far & away the less desirable compromise, on both structural & appearance grounds, so we usually opt for it on the grip, which tends to give the most pleasing grain orientation anyway (at least to my eyes). If making open handles, it pays to get as much long grain through that skinny top section as you can, 'cos that's where most will break, if they are going to.

That's my take, anyways..
Cheers,

To me it boils down personal taste & your idea of aesthetics. I think a 'pistol grip' or 'open' handle just looks better on a small saw, otherwise it gets to be all wood and not much else. Luckily, the compromise grain orientations usually work surprisingly well, as long as you choose appropriate woods (and they don't contain any nasty little voids like your piece!)

Cheers,