Trying To Get A Handle On Things

[Bushmiller]

They are really lovely handles Paul. Nice selection of timbers. Good job that man!

Brett

I agree with you. They are superb handles and I believe that Neil will put some knives on them one day. They were the initial inspiration for re-handling knives, which is why I put them up here. Neil's handles in fact follow the traditional "D" shape, which in practice makes them correct either for a right or left handed person but not both.

I hope you don't think I made those. That type of flattery will require me to go out and get a larger hat .

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

Ah, I see! Well, great job Neil.

I'm starting to get a bit of inspiration from this thread to make a handle for that knife that you sent me....

Hmmm, ...a bit of York Gum Burl would look pretty sweet.....


BTW, I hope that granite block you used in the pic isn't the Reference block you purchased for naff all....it's got holes 'n stuff in it.

[Bushmiller]

Ah, I see! Well, great job Neil.

I'm starting to get a bit of inspiration from this thread to make a handle for that knife that you sent me....

Hmmm, ...a bit of York Gum Burl would look pretty sweet.....


BTW, I hope that granite block you used in the pic isn't the Reference block you purchased for naff all....it's got holes 'n stuff in it.

Mmmmm.

Granite block . This granite block?

Granite block 001.jpg



or this granite block?

Granite block 004.jpg

.

Now you know that my shed is not as tidy as yours, which is as close to a hermetically sealed environment as I have seen outside of a laboratory.

I think you should consider a new handle for your Gyuto. Btw, the old handle can be tapped off with a small hammer and retained in case your new version is not to satisfaction. Just be careful how you hold the knife as the handle is removed. I don't remember you having a lathe, but your drill press facility would make the drilling easy. Use a jig in a similar fashion to the pen makers.

I will look forward to seeing the results .

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

Thank gawd for that! Mind you, that fabulous reference block doesn't seem to be getting the treatment it deserves

Tapping off handles safely is really easy: grip the blade flat in wooden vise jaws, and using a 15x15mm block about 80-100 long tap it off with a suitable hammer from your vast collection. This is how I put rasp/file handles on/off. If the steel slips in the jaws then wrap it in some non-slip rubber mat.

The magnet idea:
You could use those TW scabbards permanently for sheathing, and incorporate a couple of REMs. Drill a hole right through the scabbard on one side, in two places and epoxy a REM in the hole (flush with both sides of the scabbard wall). I should think that an 8mm dia REM would be enough to hold it in place but still be easily removable (one towards the point and one near the hilt/heel).

You could then use the side of the magnet on the outside of the scabbard to clamp the whole thing to a bar magnet on the wall or summfink (watch the polarity). You would probably need two at the hilt for this to stop it rotating on the bar magnet.

If concerned about abrasion between the blade and the REM then just set the REM back a poofteenth from the inside wall of the scabbard.

Could be a whole new fridge magnet opportunity.

[Bushmiller]

Thank gawd for that! Mind you, that fabulous reference block doesn't seem to be getting the treatment it deserves

Tapping off handles safely is really easy: grip the blade flat in wooden vise jaws, and using a 15x15mm block about 80-100 long tap it off with a suitable hammer from your vast collection. This is how I put rasp/file handles on/off. If the steel slips in the jaws then wrap it in some non-slip rubber mat.

The magnet idea:
You could use those TW scabbards permanently for sheathing, and incorporate a couple of REMs. Drill a hole right through the scabbard on one side, in two places and epoxy a REM in the hole (flush with both sides of the scabbard wall). I should think that an 8mm dia REM would be enough to hold it in place but still be easily removable (one towards the point and one near the hilt/heel).

You could then use the side of the magnet on the outside of the scabbard to clamp the whole thing to a bar magnet on the wall or summfink (watch the polarity). You would probably need two at the hilt for this to stop it rotating on the bar magnet.

If concerned about abrasion between the blade and the REM then just set the REM back a poofteenth from the inside wall of the scabbard.

Could be a whole new fridge magnet opportunity.

Brett

That's not a bad idea at all, but I've had enough of these particular knives now and really I'm just anxious to move them on to the future owners.

I was going to say that the magnets will work with your knife but not the stainless steel Santoku. However I then remembered that some stainless is indeed magnetic and funnily enough cutlery is one of those stainless applications. I checked and sure enough the knife was magnetic!

With regard to removing the handles I was locked in to them being difficult. The first handle was western, riveted and glued on so after drilling out the rivets and chiseling off the remainder of the handle I had assumed they would all be reluctant to part company with the tang.

I was halfway through removing the second JP handle when I twigged that it wasn't firmly attached. I held the knife by the back of the blade, edge away from me and tapped gently with a small hammer (JP ) and the handle flew off! It was only the last handle that I salvaged completely undamaged: Not that I have any idea what I will do with it.

My intention with the scabbard was that they could then be stored in a kitchen drawer without fear of damage to the knife or injury to careless fingers. Whilst they don't fit like the scabbard on a Samurai sword, they are a close fit and don't easily fall off.

Regards
Paul

[NeilS]

... it wasn't the initial hole that troubled me. That went fine even freehand. It was the subsequent holes in a row that were problematical. The first knife needed ideally five holes in a row to form the slot. In practice that was impossible and I settled for three holes and broke out the timber in between with my mini pig-sticker.

As the hole got to full depth I couldn't exert leverage for fear of breaking the timber out top and bottom. I used the drill bit at angles to achieve this. The part that got me resorting to language not commonly found in standard dictionaries was drilling the third hole, which despite my best efforts, still came out the side. I solved that in the end by angling in towards the centre hole so if the bit wandered it tended to move in to the centre and not out the side. I then chiseled the waste away to widen the hole.

Thanks for the clarification Paul.

I do the same method that you settled on with those difficult second and third drilled holes.

I appreciated seeing the tools you developed to do the mortice refinement after drilling.

Neil

[Sheets]

I'm just wondering if, or if not, why not, the method of splitting the handle in two parts, making the space for the tang and them joining the two halves back together is considered in lieu of drilling holes (which seems to be somewhat bothersome from what I'm reading). Pretty easy for me to recommend this method since I have neither lathe nor drill press. And, if making scabbards is decided upon, the necessary steps to creating them is already well practiced. ??

Steve

[Bushmiller]

I'm just wondering if, or if not, why not, the method of splitting the handle in two parts, making the space for the tang and them joining the two halves back together is considered in lieu of drilling holes (which seems to be somewhat bothersome from what I'm reading). Pretty easy for me to recommend this method since I have neither lathe nor drill press. And, if making scabbards is decided upon, the necessary steps to creating them is already well practiced. ??

Steve

Sheets

You make a good point. I think it comes down to tradition. There are three basic styles of handle: The completely separate two scales technique favoured for western style handles, the "cover top" where only the bottom of the tang is visible and the completely enclosed tang of the style we are discussing here.

Somehow it seems to be cheating to cut the handle in half, form the groove and rejoin it and yet that would indeed be so much easier. However that tell tale line of the join would be there flaunting itself every time the knife was used. For me it is a purerist thing .

I don't know how the Japanese form the blind hole for the tang. I imagine something akin to a mini chain mortising machine. Perhaps one of you knows?

Regards
Paul

[NeilS]

I don't know how the Japanese form the blind hole for the tang. I imagine something akin to a mini chain mortising machine. Perhaps one of you knows?

This is how it is done commercially in Japan.... Handle making workshop

And one method of fitting... Blade fitting

If you use that method of fitting take care not to de-temper the blade.

Neil

[Sheets]

Thanks Paul and Neil. Certainly, put in the context of commercial scale production, the time required to individually fit each tang in a form-fitting mortice would be extremely inefficient. There is obviously an agreed on size for the tangs so as to pre-fit the drilled hole, otherwise it would slow things down and the heating/burning in process might likely take too long as well with a risk not only to the blades' temper, but the fingers of the handle fitter (and, I suppose, wearing gloves is not for the purist ). Too bad hemp doesn't grow stalks large enough for knife handles,....that could be an interesting job , tho' I'd likely forget which side of the blade has the edge . Well, it wouldn't matter so long as there's still smoke.

Anyway, that answers my question.

[Bushmiller]

[QUOTE=Sheets;1746699] There is obviously an agreed on size for the tangs so as to pre-fit the drilled hole, otherwise it would slow things down ...

I think there may be a good deal of variety if the knives I have just rehandled are anything to go by. Discounting the western knife, the other three had traditional JP handles. They were all different: Very different in fact. There were differences in tang thickness and length. I was surprised at how dissimilar the tangs were were.I would guess that they just make up batches and fit the handles on a bespoke basis.



Too bad hemp doesn't grow stalks large enough for knife handles,....that could be an interesting job , tho' I'd likely forget which side of the blade has the edge . Well, it wouldn't matter so long as there's still smoke.

.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

This is the development of a theme.

The first JP knife we obtained was housed in a block like this:

Damascus knife 002.jpg

Then I made up a block for my son along similar lines to house three knives:

JP knife block 006.jpg

Now we have five knives so I had to remodel the original block:

JP 5 Knife Block 005.jpgJP 5 Knife Block 001.jpgJP 5 Knife Block 002.jpgJP 5 Knife Block 003.jpgJP 5 Knife Block 004.jpg

My main criticism is that because it is a retrofit, I haven't made it that well as I could have The scabbards don't line up as well as they should and physically it takes up too much space, but at least at long last we have somewhere safe to store the knives: Safe for the knives and safe for people.

Regards
Paul

[yojimbo]

Beautifully designed, Paul.