Four new saws (hmm 60+ yo maybe)

[Bushmiller]

handle has been sanded to some extent, I think it needs a little work yet.
Not much and soonish I'll have to find some appropriate saw nuts

Nick

Haven't you already discovered some sawnuts on this thread?
Regards
Paul

[planemaker]

I took the tote off the Francis Wood & Son backsaw a short time ago
The top bolt was quite tight
You can see why from the photo - the bolt on the right, it was essentially screwed in using the plate as the nut

Attachment 305901
I'd thought that it might have been a saw bolt but in hindsight I don't know why.
the nut pictured didn't serve any purpose as the bolt was quite tight in the plate
The brass bolt on the left was firm in the plate as well but was easier to remove.


Fortunately it doesn't seem to have done any damage to the plate, maybe a little elongation of the hole
Attachment 305902

Now the tote. The left side looks pretty ok. I'm wondering whether the brass concave washer is original. It sits flush with the face of the tote. It's about 5/8" diameter. The other bolthead hole is 1/2".
You can't tell from the photos but both bolt holes themselves have been threaded by the bolts used.
On the obverse side the damage done by the hex nuts is quite obvious. I'll have to source some larger split nuts maybe. The impression left is approx 9/16"

Attachment 305903Attachment 305904

Hi Nick. There is a chance the concave washer is an original feature of the saw. Described as the Glovers Saw Screw (patented 1887) the medallion bolt assembly was of a 2 piece construction. http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?id=7397 . http://www.wkfinetools.com/hus-saws/...astStamp-1.asp Here's a photo of 1 I have in my medallion collection.




Stewie;

[Sawdust Maker]

Stewie

Yep it is quite possible
it is a different shape to the Disston you've shown, more af a dish shape (as in satellite dish)

My thinking was that the washer was introduced at the same time as those really nice bolts which I removed (and placed in the rubbish)
but from the patina on the washer I really don't know.

I wish I could find some photos of saws from the same maker to compare, no luck so far though

[planemaker]

Stewie

Yep it is quite possible
it is a different shape to the Disston you've shown, more af a dish shape (as in satellite dish)

My thinking was that the washer was introduced at the same time as those really nice bolts which I removed (and placed in the rubbish)
but from the patina on the washer I really don't know.

I wish I could find some photos of saws from the same maker to compare, no luck so far though

Nick. Although the Disston type has a much more shallower base within the bell washer I still would not discount the possibility of yours being of similar nature to the Glover's construction. This patented construction was used by a wide variety of saw makers as well as being manufactured by different suppliers. Each may have varied slightly within their shape to suit the die the machinist chose to press the shape of bell washer. More than likely the underside of the original medallion bolt was shaped with an opposing convex to allow it to seat well within the concavity of the bell washer.

Stewie;

[planemaker]

Nick. The increased dia. size of 5/8" compared to the normal saw bolts being of 1/2" could be used to strengthen the argument that the bell washer was sized to suit a medallion insert.

[planemaker]

Nick. If you look at the following photo I took today you see the Disston Glover patented medallion. Its the saw medallion assembly nearest the black container with the bell housing pulled back from the medallion face plate.

Stewie;

[Sawdust Maker]

Stewie

Thanks for showing me your nut collection
I got the general idea from the earlier photo about how the Disston looked
This is an English saw so may have had its own idiosyncrasies

Looking closely at the photo that bolt bottom left might fit perfectly

Nick

Haven't you already discovered some sawnuts on this thread?
Regards
Paul

yep found a couple and threw a couple away (ie the ones from this saw)



On another note was having a close look at the handle today
still need to do a bit of work on it

I had a smell of it and believe that it has had a couple of health doses of engine oil on it at some stage
If I soaked in metho would it get rid of some of it?

[planemaker]

Stewie

Thanks for showing me your nut collection
I got the general idea from the earlier photo about how the Disston looked
This is an English saw so may have had its own idiosyncrasies

Looking closely at the photo that bolt bottom left might fit perfectly



yep found a couple and threw a couple away (ie the ones from this saw)



On another note was having a close look at the handle today
still need to do a bit of work on it

I had a smell of it and believe that it has had a couple of health doses of engine oil on it at some stage
If I soaked in metho would it get rid of some of it?

Hi Nick. The metho soak should do the trick. What type of saw nut assembly are you after. Early split nut type or later. Take some measurements including the handle thickness, suitable dia. of the saw bolt head and nut, as well as the thickness of both that would best suit and I will see if I have something to match. The dia. of the early type range from 13.80mm down to 12.5mm, and the thicknesses are from 2.3mm to 3.57mm. I am already setting aside 1 assembly for Bushmiller. Just waiting on some further feedback to finalize.

Stewie;

[Sawdust Maker]

Stewie

Thanks for the offer
I'm not sure what I'll use yet or even if I've got it covered with what I've got on hand or can take out of one of my recent acquisitions

in any event I'll have to wait until I get the plate back from PSS* - which should be later in the week

I'd really like to know if it had a fancy medallion or even if it originally had split nuts

anyway off to soak the handle in metho and I might even get a mallet out and play some saw tunes

cheers



* Pagie's Saw Service

[Sawdust Maker]

Soaked in metho - has dried the handle out and opened up the crack big time
I'll try some glue and clamps tomorrow (will take a piccy first)

Hit a couple of saws - some are very dull sounding - the ones with cracked handles especially so
The Buck and the Spear and Jackson probably sound the best
Was disappointed with the Atkins until I noticed a crack in the handle
I'll have to make a video for Mr McGee

[Sawdust Maker]

Interesting the handle seemed to settle down overnight and the gaps close up somewhat - maybe the stresses needed to settle

I should have taken a photo last night

anyway I spread the cracks and used a syringe to inject some glue. The handle is now under clamps.

I'll hopefully do the final sanding tomorrow

still undecided what I'll use as a finish on it

I'll attach the photos in the morning

Edit: It's now morning

handle backsaw_6135.jpg Handle backsaw_6144.jpg Handle backsaw_6146.jpg

Handle backsaw_6153.jpg Handle backsaw_6159.jpg

[Sawdust Maker]

I had a go with the scourer belt on the Multitool
on one of my blades (Saw #3)

piccies:

Grinder belt_6169.jpg

Saw blade before and after
can't say that I was too impressed
It took off a lot of the seeable rust but I still had a go with a piece of 400 grit

The blue circle is the blade just using the belt, the red circle is after using a bit of sandpaper


Saw #3 before clean_6148.jpg Saw #3 scratch belt_6152.jpg Saw #3 scratch belt circled_6152.jpg

Below is the blade of an old screwdriver I picked up
unfortunately I don't have a before shot.

screwdriver_6163.jpg screwdriver_6166.jpg

Seems to clean up the solid metal a lot better
maybe because there is no flex?

EDIT

Been thinking about this belt a bit more

It does remove a lot of the rust
It didn't bring this saw back to bare metal but it got to that stage a lot more quickly than elbow grease.
I suppose its time saving is in not having to spend as much time with the sandpaper so probably does save time in the long run.

I'll have to do a longer test to be sure about this
as this was only a few minutes

the other factor is cost - I can't recall how much I paid for this nor do I have any idea how long it might last

I'm half tempted to try the same test but using a sandpaper belt (on a reject blade of course)

[Bushmiller]

Nick

Your experience with the multi tool sander on a saw plate and a screwdriver is exactly what I would have expected.

The way I see it, the danger with any sanding process is that it leaves marks on the steel that become difficult to remove at a later date. Sanding a) removes metal (at some point) and b) scoots across the top of the high spots. In principle it doesn't matter whether it is done by hand or machine, but of course the machine sanding can get away from you if you don't keep a close eye on the progress.

In the case of the screwdriver you can exert more pressure on a concentrated area and because you have so much more thickness of steel to play with, there is a bigger margin of error. The saw plate is thin and removing scratch marks may leave an unacceptably thin plate.

No manner of sanding can get into the small depressions without removing copious (relative to the sawplate) quantities of steel. This is the reason I, for the moment, like to start with electrolysis.

However, there is this big question hanging over the the process. Actually there are two questions.

The first is the issue of safety. I conduct my electrolysis out in the open and not inside a building. That pretty much removes the potential for noxious gases causing irritation and the ignition of hydrogen is unlikely providing there are no ignition sources and recommended quantities of washing soda are used. The fact is that being excessive with many normal products becomes can become hazardous. Common sense has to prevail.

The second issue, that of hydrogen embrittlement, is more contentious. The suspposition is that the steel can become brittle with cracking occurring and the potential for teeth (on the saw; Your own are not at risk ) to break during the setting process.

I have not seen this, but I intend to take some old sacrificial saws and test them to see if the blades crack and the teeth break. I will also give them the heat treatment in an oven. In principle a test of this nature is easy or it would be if I could get three identical saw plates. In practice I will probably have to cut the saw plates of several saws into three so I can have a control section, a section only treated with electrolysis and a third section that is baked after the electrolysis.

I have to get some old rubbish saws first .

Regards
Paul

[pmcgee]

I didn't know whether to throw this in here ... it was a thumbhole handle I took of a saw and replaced with a normal D8 handle.
It was weathered and was cracked in three places.
Didn't take a before picture ...

It was the colour of this beech handle when I sanded it back to take off the weathering.
I slopped it all over with BLO and hung it from a screw into one of the bolt-holes.
Each time I just slopped and left it ... so not very sofistikated. This was the 4th 'coat'.
It was the first time there was a section with excess ... the matte section had absorbed it all again.

20140301_033049 (Medium).jpg

I thought I'd rub it all over with metho to try get a more even result ... then sanded ...

20140301_033615 (Medium).jpg 20140301_033747 (Medium).jpg 20140301_034516 (Medium).jpg

I haven't ever had any 'paste wax' here, so I went to the hardware and ended up with carnauba wax.
I also didn't have steel wool.
I tried it on the drill press with a soft mop and green compound ... possibly could go for a much faster speed/more pressure but I hadn't tried it before so I was being conservative ... then tried rubbing on the wax with a tshirt.

20140304_185344 (Medium).jpg that left it very matte ... and a bit resin-y to the hand, rather than smooth.

This is after more with the tshirt and back to the drill-mop without any compound added.

20140305_013711 (Medium).jpg 20140305_013731 (Medium).jpg

The 2nd photo shows where the three cracks were ... I glued then up with ordinary PVA in a couple of goes.

It was pretty nice for a user result ... not like those awesome new handles from the makers on here ... but pre-aged and very much as I like.
It still had some of that resin-y feel. I've had it near the laptop and pick it up and handled it for a few weeks now and it feels smoother over time.

Just took a photo just now trying to minimise the impact of the flash ...

20140321_205829[1].jpg

Coulda gone with less BLO originally, but pretty happy with the experiment.
Could probably mop it a fair bit harder ... I understand carnauba is a 'hard' wax.
Cheers,
Paul

[IanW]

Paul, I know boiled linseed oil is the time-honoured treatment for tool handles, but frankly, I reckon it sucks on saw handles. For a start, it goes horribly dark over time, and smothers any figure the wood may have (ok, your handle is most likely Apple, which is devoid of figure, so that's not an issue in this case). My other objection is that it takes forever to cure, as you've demonstrated, and can remain sticky for weeks to months depending on the weather & the particular brew. If you must use an oil, most of the 'Danish' oils you can get are based on linseed, and so also have a darkening effect, but at least they contain metallic driers and cure pretty fully in a week or two.

Notwithstanding, you've got a pretty decent result (at least partly because you've scoured a good deal of the BLO off ). I suspect if you let it cure another month or two, it will buff to a very nice, tactile surface, either with the cloth wheel or with lots of use.....

Cheers,