Tig Advice

[master5med3]

Hello all,

A mate of mine is selling his Kemppi MasterTig 2000 AC DC welder in very good condition for 2 grand.
It has a standard AC DC panel not the Pulse panel.
I'd like to know if it's capable of welding aluminium to 5mm ?
Also does anyone know the cost of a pulse panel to suit ?
Is 2 grand a good deal ?

Regards

Con

[Karl Robbers]

Well and truly capable of 5mm ally, but the torch will get hot on longer runs due to being only an air cooled torch.
No idea on price of pulse panel, but being Kemppi, expect $$$$$$$. Do you really need pulse?
$2000 is a lot of money for a 200A single phase TIG if you compare it against other offerings, but is probably not too bad if you compare it to a new Kemppi. It depends on how much you like the Kemppi name.

[master5med3]

Karl, thanks for taking the time to answer.
I used to manufacture commercial kitchens, so tig welding is not new to me, however that was 20 years ago.
I'm looking to build a alloy boat later in the year, so I thought I would start looking for a Tig and mig welders.
In your answer you discuss other brands available, can you list them.
I have 10 grand to spend on both welders and my house does not have 3 phase.

Thanks
Con

PS, I know what the popular brands are, but I haven't kept up with there features.

[Legion]

Con, cwcarter is in the same boat as you (OK, pun intended). Read his excellent thread and I'm sure he'd be able to offer excellent advice.

Me, I'm relatively new to tig but I'm pretty damn happy with my Miller Dynasty 200DX. A couple of others on the forum also have it. It can take single phase as well as three phase. If the 200 dies, I'll look very closely at a 280DX or even a 350.

If you want to build a boat or use any big welder to it's capabilities you might have to look into your power supply whether you like it or not.

I do have a little Kemppi stick/lift tig welder. It's great. Unfortunately right after I bought it I came across the Miller so it's kind of sitting there unused. I don't know if I want to sell it because of its 240V/10A input. But it's great and very user friendly.

I did look at the Mastertigs. They look very nice. I do use pulse a fair bit but I'm not a pro and don't have much experience so I can't say whether I need it or not. FWIW if you are looking at doing more ally, pro ally guys don't use pulse at all really. I'm still not sure why. Maybe because you want lots of heat rather than limiting heat input. But I would have thought you could find super useful settings with high background and high pulse width. Anyway, pulse seems to be more used by steel guys, particularly stainless.

[master5med3]

Legion, thank you for your response.
I have gone through cwcarter’s thread and as you say i ’am pretty much in the same position he was in.
I've had several quotes to hook up three phase to the shed, the cheapest quote being just under 8 grand.
Going three phase opens up allot more options, however 8 grand plus the welders is a fair wack to the pocket.

Regards

Con

[Legion]

If you find what parts you need and source them yourself, you can save a fortune. All you need is a sparky who will be willing to do the install and sign off. So for me I needed:

three phase cable with Clipsal fittings (40m @ $50, gumtree special)
AEG three phase breaker ($29 ebay)
Clipsal switch ($50 or so ebay)

On top of that you'll need a sub board, a second breaker, a few other things. If I paid retail it would have cost a lot. Especially Clipsal stuff. And cable is a lot. But if you're patient and watch classifieds you can save a bargain. If you can find a willing sparky who will provide you with a shopping list and you take a few weeks/months gathering supplies and then get them back to do the installation. Dig trenches, drill holes yourself etc, make it easy for them so all they have to do is run cable and hook it up. The more they have to do @ $70/hour or whatever, the more it will cost you.

[WelderMick]

A mate of mine is selling his Kemppi MasterTig 2000 AC DC welder in very good condition for 2 grand.

I used a MasterTIG at TAFE quite a bit and it was a very nice machine. The torch was fine heat-wise for just about everything, but things would warm up if doing a long run, like weaving up a 6 inch pipe, but then again, everything would get hot doing that. I always found the torch a bit awkward to hold, despite the little adjustable thumb tabs - so that's worth playing around with. Apart from that it was a nice machine, particularly for very fine fiddly work with stainless - I was looking at a few mastertigs around the time and I seem to remember that $2000 was around the price to pay, which isn't bad for a brand name ACDC tig I reckon, but I got a tokentools model which I've been very happy with.

I agree with Legion's comment about pulse - you don't need it. I reckon a comfortable torch, with the trigger in the right position and some good upslope/downslope settings would be most useful when doing a boat.

Here's a thread on an all TIG welded boat build: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php...lboat-buliding.
Looks like a lot of work, I love TIG, but personally I couldn't see it being much fun after a while - I'd go the MIG route as with craig's (cwcarter) build. Imagine for instance doing the under-gunwal welds with TIG.

Good luck

- Mick

[master5med3]

Mick, I think you miss understood, I’m looking to get both mig and tig welders. My question is, can single phase welders do the job with ease, or will they struggle.



As for the mastertig I was going to use it for fuel tanks etc..


Regards



Con

[Legion]

From my understanding my 200 amp machine will struggle to go beyond about 5mm aluminium. I'm not sure how MIGs compare.

[cwcarter]

From my understanding my 200 amp machine will struggle to go beyond about 5mm aluminium. I'm not sure how MIGs compare.

Hi legion,

Bait board I just did had a long 750mm fillet at the top rear using 6mm flat bar to 5mm plate. Did it with ease. Full pedal/amps to start then back off as you move along. Remember your only doing about 70mm runs and then letting things cool off for abit. The next start will be less amps due to the metal still being heat saturated.

Oh and I'm a foot pedal man, I'll tape it to my foot before I use a switch.
Pulse what pulse my foot shakes enough not to use it.
Honestly I thought I needed it but have played with it and came to the conclusion I don't. You need to get in there hot to start then go!!.


Cheers
Craig.

[danielhobby]

Oh and I'm a foot pedal man, I'll tape it to my foot before I use a switch.
Pulse what pulse my foot shakes enough not to use it.
Honestly I thought I needed it but have played with it and came to the conclusion I don't. You need to get in there hot to start then go!!.


that was a good laugh mate

[WelderMick]

Mick, I think you miss understood, I’m looking to get both mig and tig welders. My question is, can single phase welders do the job with ease, or will they struggle.
As for the mastertig I was going to use it for fuel tanks etc..
Regards
Con

Yeah I mis-read that completely- wouldn't be the first time either unfortunately.
That changes a few things... I'll put in another vote for the foot pedal, I use mine whenever I can. I was initially envisaging you climbing around in a boat with tig torch.
I hardly ever use pulse - I'd put the money into a pedal.
My 200amp TIG will easily do 5mm, particularly edge seams.
Cheers
- Mick

[Karl Robbers]

I'm the opposite to Mick and Daniel in that I am a trigger man. Pedals are well and good if you are at a bench etc, but for more mobile usage I find them to be less effective. I second their comments regarding pulse though, never used it on ally and rarely on stainless.
200A will weld 10MM ally, but as already mentioned, torch heat soon get's excessive. In reality, a water cooled torch is not that big an effort to sort out though. Just setting up a trickle water feed from a tap will do the job.
The imported chinese welders have really moved the goal posts these days. If you buy from a reputable seller, who will be around in the years to come, then you can't really go wrong. You could replace your whole welder for the cost of a couple of Fronius circuit boards in the event of a breakdown. Interestingly, I have used Kemppi welders and they are very nice, but my welder repairer spits on the ground and mumbles under his breath when you mention them. Apparently their build quality is nowhere near commensurate with their price.
I know of several businesses using the chinese machines very effectively, (just be careful which chinese machine you buy as not all are equal). I am not pro chinese as such, but the big names are not what they used to be and many are chinese machines rebranded.
Have you got a good 15A supply? I emphasise good, in fact a 20-25A supply is required to support a 200A Tig or 250A mig when maxed out.
To be honest, I would not be too concerned about pulse on your mig either. Pulse is nice and a real benefit sub 3mm, but a good straight mig will be quite adequate for boat building and actually get the job done faster than pulse in my experience. The best mig I have used on ally is a WIA Fabricator, but that is a 3 phase machine of course.
Token Tools have a good name and the owner of Magnum Welders is a straight shooter too. Stay away from anything Mishto whatever you do as there have been a few bad experiences on this forum.
With the money you save, you could buy a vertical bandsaw, (brilliant for ally work) and a plasma cutter which could be a good tool to have while building your boat.

[variant22]

I own a Kemppi MasterTig 2300 MLS with the Pulse panel. It has not missed a beat and is a brilliant machine. That all being said, I can tell you for a fact that the pulse panels themselves as replacement parts are hideously expensive. I investigated buying one when I was looking at Kemppi MasterTig's and I quickly worked out that buying one with the panel would be the best way forward. If I remember right they wanted almost as much as I paid for my machine just for the panel.

I am with Karl - not much of a foot pedal type. I find it very inconvenient at most times. That said on thin sheet metal I reckon it would be worth its weight in gold. I have one (from the Rapid in the UK) and it was also not cheap.

Some of the hose connections can also be a bugger. The quick connect if I remember right is proprietary to Kemppi. That said my local welding shop got me one without much delay. So no big deal.

As for heavy stuff, I have welded mild steel plate @8mm (if I remember right) using 3.2mm mild rods maxing out the Kemppi's amperage. Thanks to Tig Fingers the heat is manageable. It does get hot though! You can get water coolers for these things if you are so inclined.

All in all I really like my Kemppi. I would never part with it, for me it is the perfect welder. And for the record, I mostly weld with pulse off - something about the soothing sound of the gas with without all that cracking from the pulse. It is very relaxing.

Oh, and whatever you do get a good helmet. I currently use a Miller Digital Elite. I went from being flashed regularly (enough to temporarily blind me long enough to blow holes) to not being flashed since buying one. A mate also got a Miller Digital Elite (after going through the same ordeal with his cheap helmet) and we can't recommend them highly enough. A really nice piece of kit that has also not missed a beat.

My 2c - back to the Metalwork area I go..

220amps.JPG

[master5med3]

G’day all,
Bit of an update, I ended up buying a new Kemppi Mastertig 2300 AC/DC pulse welder.
I’ve been playing around with it lately and i must say its a hell of allot better than the old Lincoln bullet I used to use many years ago.
The last few days I’ve been looking at aftermarket torches and power/gas hoses, mainly by CK Worldwide and it’s impossible to get anything that will fit the Kemppi.
Looking for any advice you may give.

Regards

Con