Carter C1 Rebate Plane

[Morbius]

A friend of mine has asked me to refurbish his grandfather's Carter C1 rebate plane. It's been sitting in the shed, slowly collecting cosmetic rust, and as far as I can tell, the main parts have seized.

IMG_4784.jpg

What colour would this plane originally have been?

Is the blade the same as the Stanley #10?

Does anyone have a photo of one in good nick that I can use as a reference?

Thanks,

Craig

[NCArcher]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pHkZGsW7nT...0/IMG_4599.JPG


http://www.htpaa.org.au/oztools-imag...-carter-c1.gif

There's a couple off google images.

It looks like they were painted/japanned black. A Stanley No 10 blade should fit. They are a copy of the No.10

[Morbius]

Thanks for the pictures! From the pictures and looking at the plane (it's been soaking in industrial vinegar for the last three hours) the body was originally black, and painted, not japanned. Looking closely at the handle and the knob, it looks like they were painted black too!

The vinegar is working well. I managed to undo all the screws - not bad considering I could not move a single thing on it three hours ago Rust is coming off it at a rapid rate of knots, the sole is nearly silver again, and that's just rubbing it with a cloth after using the vinegar.
It should be interesting to see in the morning.

I'll post pictures of before and after, tomorrow when I clean it up.

Craig

[Vann]

Is the blade the same as the Stanley #10?

Hi Craig. I disagree with Mr Archer. I believe the Carter rebate plane was unique in having a 2 3/8" iron, unlike the Stanley/Record bench rabbets which have a 2 1/8" iron.
When TS did the last Stanley replacement irons bulk buy, I was involved in preparing CAD drawings for a 2 3/8" rebate iron especially for the Carter rebate plane (I think only three were ordered IIRC).

A quick measure of the width of your plane will prove me right or wrong. Unfortunately, if I'm right, I doubt you'll find a new iron, although you might have the skills to modify a standard 2 3/8" iron.

Cheers, Vann.

[Morbius]

Found a heap of info about these planes here:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/carter-rebate-plane-42554

Craig

[NCArcher]

Vann, I know nothing about Carter planes so I am sure you're right. I just assumed it was another Stanley copy.
I would have a go at modifying a standard 2-3/8" blade if I couldn't find one online somewhere.

[Morbius]

Hi Craig. I disagree with Mr Archer. I believe the Carter rebate plane was unique in having a 2 3/8" iron, unlike the Stanley/Record bench rabbets which have a 2 1/8" iron.
When TS did the last Stanley replacement irons bulk buy, I was involved in preparing CAD drawings for a 2 3/8" rebate iron especially for the Carter rebate plane (I think only three were ordered IIRC).

A quick measure of the width of your plane will prove me right or wrong. Unfortunately, if I'm right, I doubt you'll find a new iron, although you might have the skills to modify a standard 2 3/8" iron.

Cheers, Vann.

Vann,

Thanks for that info! I am happy to say that with the removal of most of the heavy rust, the blade is going to be okay! I will try to post some pictures later today.

Craig

[lightwood]

Hi Craig. I disagree with Mr Archer. I believe the Carter rebate plane was unique in having a 2 3/8" iron, unlike the Stanley/Record bench rabbets which have a 2 1/8" iron.
When TS did the last Stanley replacement irons bulk buy, I was involved in preparing CAD drawings for a 2 3/8" rebate iron especially for the Carter rebate plane (I think only three were ordered IIRC).

A quick measure of the width of your plane will prove me right or wrong. Unfortunately, if I'm right, I doubt you'll find a new iron, although you might have the skills to modify a standard 2 3/8" iron.

Cheers, Vann.

Vann, and other Carter Tool fans...
The blade is indeed 2 3/8in.
I have uploaded some images of the rest of the Carter paper I have.
Index of /oldtools/carter/images

Regards,
Peter

[Morbius]

Well,

The vinegar has done wonders.

Before
Carter C1 Rebate Plane 05 - Left Oblique Profile.jpg

And After (wood removed by me, not the vinegar!)
Carter C1 Rebate Plane 14 - Left - Profile - Oblique.jpg

Now, the blade is a bit of a treat. I can bring this up nicely, but am after a little advice.
It's a dangerous question, I know, but what is the best angle to sharpen one of these for such a type of rebate plane?

Carter C1 Rebate Plane 16 - Blade and Chipbreaker.jpg

Thanks,

Craig

[Morbius]

Paint.

It was originally black, so I'll be doing it in a black colour. Probably KillRust Gloss.

As noted elsewhere, the paint suffered from shrinkage, due to being dried too quickly, resulting in a crackling sort of pattern. I will not be trying to replicate that. Well, not deliberately.

The handles were also dip painted in gloss black, which will be easy to duplicate, but isn't a personal favourite of mine.

The wooden knob and tote also appreared to have a coat of varnish over them as well, possibly to protect the original sticker on the tote.

The blade was in surprisingly good condition for a plane that had been left in a shed, under a slow leak in the roof. The blade still has the Carter logo clearly stamped on it, and the original owner, however many years ago had gone to the trouble of putting a micro-bevel on it. Clever bugger!

Craig

[Morbius]

Vann, and other Carter Tool fans...
The blade is indeed 2 3/8in.
I have uploaded some images of the rest of the Carter paper I have.
Index of /oldtools/carter/images

Regards,
Peter

Peter,

Thanks very much for this info! That brochure is gold golddust!

Craig

[Morbius]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of literature about sharpening the blade for this particular type of plane. I did find this advice on the L-N website about their 10 1/4 rebate plane:

The blade is ground sharp at a 25° bevel. A secondary bevel of up to 5 degrees helps achieve a razor edge quickly. This also improves edge life in hardwoods.

I figure that this would hold true for the Carter C1, but am open to suggestions. Anyone got any other advice on this?

Thanks,

Craig

[Morbius]

Well,

I've started looking for one of these of my own. I thought about picking up a Stanley instead, but like the idea of a wider blade and that it can also be used as a smoother. I spotted a Franken-plane version to The Tool Exchange's site, but noticed that it's got the wrong lever cap on it (Carter only used 5 types, and the one on the plane on that site wasn't one of them).

If anyone happens to have one of these planes that they'd consider parting with, please let me know!

Craig

[Morbius]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of literature about sharpening the blade for this particular type of plane. I did find this advice on the L-N website about their 10 1/4 rebate plane:

The blade is ground sharp at a 25° bevel. A secondary bevel of up to 5 degrees helps achieve a razor edge quickly. This also improves edge life in hardwoods.

I figure that this would hold true for the Carter C1, but am open to suggestions. Anyone got any other advice on this?

Thanks,

Craig

I haven't had anyone tell me I'm wrong about this angle, so I am going to regrind the angle at 25 degrees and do a micro bevel to bring it up to 30 degrees afterwards.

While I have been playing around with this tool, I noticed that the frog is a bit lacklustre. Out of 54 square centimetres, there would be less than 6 1/2 cms of the frog's surface in contact with the blade to support it. This is less than some of the cheapest Stanleys! On Aussie hardwood, that's going to flex.

I looked around my spare parts collection and found an orphaned Marsden Brothers (of Sheffield) laminated plane blade that is 4.6 mm thick, and is the exact same width as the 1 C's original blade. I am shopping around for a C 1 of my own, and might as well see if a thicker blade will improve performance. The blade will be easy to modify with my grinder and a bit of time with a file The mouth of the plane is wide enough to accommodate the thicker blade, without modification.

This will be an interesting little experiment

Craig

[Morbius]

Well,

I now have my own Carter C1, which is slightly different to my friend's. A little thicker and heavier, without the classic hex nut front knob. Mine has a knob, but it is more traditional (like a Stanley), but badly damaged. So, I'll have to replace it.

What wood did Carter make their knobs and totes out of?

Thanks,

Craig