Help with Plane selection please

[TORB]

I think I need a plane to help me with final clean up work. e.g. Removing marks after the job has been through the wide drum sander. Most of the work I do is with very hard Oz hardwood and a fair bit of that work is also end grain.

I have....
Veritas Scrub Plane
Veritas No6 Fore Plane
Stanley Sweetheart No4 Bench Plane
Veritas Block Plane (as well as some assorted specialised stuff.)

I have done a lot of research and am now even more confused as to what would be best to help me clean up those imperfections the drum sander leaves. I have tried using the No4 but even on the finest cut, it is prone to tear out.

I have narrowed the selection down to three items.

1. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...182,41187&ap=1 (Veritas Low-Angle Smooth Plane)
2. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,52515 (Veritas Bevel-Up Smoother Plane)
3. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,310&p=48431 (Veritas Scraping Plane)

The price of the Low Angle (1) is about $60 less than the Bevel Up (2) but I prefer the shape of the Bevel up. To make it more confusing, the lower price of the Scraping Plane is also attractive.

So what will be the best for my application and what offers the best value? Your input would be appreciated.

[joez]

I am probably going against the grain here (no pun intended ) but for me sanding comes after handplaning not before. Some loose grit can make a mess of your handplane pretty quickly.

I have a large drum sander and I have found that anything lower than 80 grit is a pain to sand/finish as it can compress the fibres as much as sand, even though the surface looks good, it all falls apart once you put a finish on it.

If I am using the drum sander I never go lower than 80 grit for the reasons above and then finish off my panels with RO sander usually starting at 120grit and finishing somewhere in the 200grit ranges.

I am interested to see what other people out there use, becuase a handplane is a lot more fun to use than any sander ...


Joez

[TORB]

I have a large drum sander and I have found that anything lower than 80 grit is a pain to sand/finish as it can compress the fibres as much as sand, even though the surface looks good, it all falls apart once you put a finish on it.

I am interested to see what other people out there use, becuase a handplane is a lot more fun to use than any sander ...

Joez

I think you may have just explained the cause of a particular problem I have just experienced. I was using the drum sander with 60 grit and it caused some scratches that I just could not get out with the ROS. A plane did remove them.

[joez]

I think you may have just explained the cause of a particular problem I have just experienced. I was using the drum sander with 60 grit and it caused some scratches that I just could not get out with the ROS. A plane did remove them.

Another thing you can try would be to lightly wet the wood to raise the grain before moving from the drum sander to the ROS/Hand plane.

[IanW]

I think the only plane that might do the job you want would be one with a very high cutting angle. How you get that is immaterial in my view, either high angle, bevel-down; or use a bevel-up plane with a very steep sharpening bevel. Given a few restrictions, they are Tweedle dum & Tweedle dee, imo, though there are others who will debate that vociferously. On some woods I still get annoying pick-out with a 60 degree (bevel down) plane.
When the going gets that tough, I use a scraper plane, which will out-perform any other plane I own. Not everyone gets on with, or likes, scraper planes, it seems, but I find my LV will beat any other (cutting tool) method of getting really recalcitrant hard woods to cooperate.

And yes, I would not use any plane I valued on wood after sanding it - loose grits get left behind in the wood & can take the edge off a blade in one or two swipes!

I loathe sanding, and try to avoid it as much as possible, but sometimes (heresy!! ) it offers a quicker route to the end product than cutting tools.

Cheers,

[chook]

Ian, I am interested in this scraper plane business. I have a substantial amount of camphor with which I am going to make a new kitchen. I have LV bevel up smoother which is ground to a steepish angle, I think 50 degrees or there abouts. But the grain in the camphor is just ridiculous and I still get some tear out. Do you have any experience of the scraper plane on this sort of timber.

[IanW]

Ian, I am interested in this scraper plane business. I have a substantial amount of camphor with which I am going to make a new kitchen. I have LV bevel up smoother which is ground to a steepish angle, I think 50 degrees or there abouts. But the grain in the camphor is just ridiculous and I still get some tear out. Do you have any experience of the scraper plane on this sort of timber.

Hi Chook, I've had lots of experience planing Camphor, but not much of it with a scraper plane. I certainly know what a beast of a wood it can be, that's for sure! That rowed grain can be extremely difficult to tame, and it's often curly to boot, but strange to say, I usually get the best results with a bog standard 45 degree Bailey. The blade has to be super sharp and set for a pretty fine cut, but that's what works best for me. Can't remember if I've ever taken the scraper plane to it, but I've certainly used a card scraper on it & it was ok, though not brilliant. My rule of thumb is 'the harder the wood, the better it responds to a scraper' and as you know Camphor isn't a very hard wood at all.

Camphor is worth all the effort, though. Once you finally get it smoothed, it has a beautiful surface, which seems to be durable enough. This bookcase & blanket chest are both over 15 years old and still look as good as the day I finished them. Bkse camphor red.jpg Blanket chest 2 red.jpg

The finish was oil & wax. They've had a few more waxings over the years, but not very many, and the surface has remained in great shpe. Considering how little went into the finish, the results are terrific!

Cheers,

[chook]

I have a cubic meter of it so I had best sort something out.

[TORB]

Thanks for the replies guys. The info is going to be very useful.

By chance, (luckily) I used a vacuum cleaner with soft brush attachment on the timber before I planed it. However, since I bought a Veritas Honing Guide, resharpening chisels and plane blades is a cinch.

Based on the input, it confirmed by suspicions, so I am going to buy the scraper.

[hiroller]

You might like to check the effectiveness of a scraper plane by trying a plain scraper first.
much cheaper option if you are cleaning up lines.
A bit of old saw plate will do or something like this:
http://www.carbatec.com.au/veritas-s...per-set_c20370

[IanW]

You might like to check the effectiveness of a scraper plane by trying a plain scraper first.
much cheaper option if you are cleaning up lines...

Wise words, I think. As I said, not everyone gets on with scraper planes straight off. Card scrapers are cheap as chips, and extremely useful, even if you own a scraper plane. Learning to drive a card scraper will teach you the hows & whys of scraper geometry, and enable you to get the best out of a scraper plane. Well, that's the way it worked out for me. I think if I had gone straight into a scraper plane without the card scraper experience, I may have given up in frustration before I got it working properly....

Cheers,

[johnredl]

Ian, have u used any of the HNT Gordon planes? From what I understand they offer the ability to use them as a normal angle plane & by 'reversing' (?) the blade the plane becomes a scraper?

[TORB]

Thanks to both Ian and Haroller for the wise words. I already have 4 scraper blades, 1 scraper holder plus a ball joint scraper and another set for irregular shapes. It was a nightmare of a learning curve on how to set them up properly, sharpen them and then use them effectively, but I am getting the hang of it and are comfortable using them.

[derekcohen]

I think I need a plane to help me with final clean up work. e.g. Removing marks after the job has been through the wide drum sander. Most of the work I do is with very hard Oz hardwood and a fair bit of that work is also end grain.

I have....
Veritas Scrub Plane
Veritas No6 Fore Plane
Stanley Sweetheart No4 Bench Plane
Veritas Block Plane (as well as some assorted specialised stuff.)

I have done a lot of research and am now even more confused as to what would be best to help me clean up those imperfections the drum sander leaves. I have tried using the No4 but even on the finest cut, it is prone to tear out.

I have narrowed the selection down to three items.

1. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...182,41187&ap=1 (Veritas Low-Angle Smooth Plane)
2. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,52515 (Veritas Bevel-Up Smoother Plane)
3. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,310&p=48431 (Veritas Scraping Plane)

The price of the Low Angle (1) is about $60 less than the Bevel Up (2) but I prefer the shape of the Bevel up. To make it more confusing, the lower price of the Scraping Plane is also attractive.

So what will be the best for my application and what offers the best value? Your input would be appreciated.

Hi Rick

The plane you have not mentioned is the plane I would recommend most for both face grain and end grain: the LV LA Jack.

Use it with a high bevel angle on interlocked hardwood, and a low angle for end grain on a shooting board.

It is a while since I worked with camphor. In a distant memory I recall that a low cutting angle worked better than a high cutting angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[TORB]

Hi Rick

The plane you have not mentioned is the plane I would recommend most for both face grain and end grain: the LV LA Jack.

Derek

Thanks Derek.... I think. It looks like a fine bit of gear and if the scraper does not work out, or is to much like hard work, I will order it for sure.