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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Seattle, Washington, USA
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    Default Soundproofing my Workshop

    I recently moved. My new place is a Queenslander style house. The neighbours are about 2m from either side of our house. If their window is open, we can hear them talking in their kitchen through our CLOSED windows. Same on the other side. I think one side has residents that work but I think the other side is a family of three with a kid and a stay at home mom. They seem nice enough, but I feel like this is still a very delicate situation and if I play my cards wrong I'm facing a situation which could result in me having to give up woodworking.

    My potential shop space is under my house and is, for all intents and purposes, completely open air. The absolute furthest I can get any one tool is about 5m from the neighbours. As it stands, it would be like running my thickness planer right outside their window.

    so I need help. I need to get this area as quiet as possible. Building a detached structure is not an option. My space is about a 3m x 4.8m concrete pad. As it stands, my plan is to frame it in with 2x4s and use soundproofing insulation on all sides. I expect this to cost about $1000. If I KNEW beyond a doubt that it would work, I would do it without a thought. My biggest fear is putting all of the time and money into building this vault-like room and then getting a knock on the door in the middle of my first project.

    Another consideration is budget. If my pockets were bottomless I'd just pay a guy to come do it and be done with it but that's not the case. $1000 is about all I can spend on this. Maybe $1500 but it has to be guaranteed to work.

    so that's what I'm facing. Any kind of advice appreciated.

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  3. #2
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    Whatever you do it is not possible to achieve acoustical control with a single cheap product.

    You will need at least two materials
    1) Something dense like a sheet of lead, or thick and heavy like thick ply or chipboard, or concete/brick,
    and
    2) Something sound absorbent like foam, or layers of carpet or corrugated cardboard.

    The sound absorber will not capture much sound during a single pass through it so you need the heavy material to bounce it back through the absorber multiple times to increase the absorption.

    A sandwich structure like a stud wall with the heavy/dense stuff on the outside and the sound absorber in the middle or on the inside layer of the sandwich (not always practical) is the usual way it is done

    On my DC sound enclsoure I used Trimdeck on the outside (for waterproofing) 32 mm melamine under that and then 75mm of old mattress foam - I didn't need a covering on the inside as there is no one moving around inside.

    For a workshop you could use a 75 or 100 mm thick stud wall lined with thick ply on the outside and thinner ply on the inside and some thick thermal fibreglass/rockwool type insulation or foam in the middle. If you want to save a few pennies, especially on walls covered by cupboards or lined with shelves, you could use gyprock on the inner walls.

    The more, thicker heavier stuff you use the more sound will be trapped inside the shed. The more sound absorber is used the more sound is absorbed during a single pass.

    An important thing to consider is gaps as even small gaps will allow considerable sound to escape so make sure these a adequate plugged.

  4. #3
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    Langwarrin, Victoria, Australia
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    First thing I would be doing is calling council, explaining the situation and seeking their advice. I had a neighbour call council on me early this year ... Somewhat justified, but highly exaggerated complaint.

    Anyway, the fellow at council was very reasonable, and said that I had a right to operate my work shop, but of course, one should respect reasonable noise levels at reasonable times.

    Next thing (which is what my neighbour did NOT do) is to approach them and discuss things. If they have small kids, what times are bed times etc. and try to avoid them.

    Of course, if this has already been done, I will climb back under my rock ... Many others more learned than me can comment on sound proofing.
    Glenn Visca

  5. #4
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    One more thing, if you have a smart phone get yourself a "sound pressure level meter" app.

    Even if they are not that accurate in terms of absolute dBs they will provide relative or comparative readings.

    For example my DC sound levels at the fence line (1m from my enclosure) are similar to the noise made by my neighbours pool pump and his pump runs all day and night for much of the year,

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    One more thing, if you have a smart phone get yourself a "sound pressure level meter" app.

    Even if they are not that accurate in terms of absolute dBs they will provide relative or comparative readings.

    For example my DC sound levels at the fence line (1m from my enclosure) are similar to the noise made by my neighbours pool pump and his pump runs all day and night for much of the year,
    Great advice guys. Really appreciate it. The cheapest 1200x2400 structural decking material at bunnings is 15mm particle board. I was thinking this on the outside, specially designed sound insulation between, and either another layer of particle board or drywall on the inside. Framed with 75mm pine.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Maddux View Post
    Great advice guys. Really appreciate it. The cheapest 1200x2400 structural decking material at bunnings is 15mm particle board. I was thinking this on the outside, specially designed sound insulation between, and either another layer of particle board or drywall on the inside. Framed with 75mm pine.
    15mm is good for the inside but it might be a but thin on the outside. You can always try it our and if it's too thin just add another layer.

  8. #7
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    All good advice or ready said .
    The only thing I would add is to put foam all over your inner walls as thick as you can go.
    You have to be also careful of acoustic bridging.
    This is will happen if you have hard surface in the inside ,
    Hard surface in to studs in to hard surface on the outside.
    The noise then has what's call a bridge.
    That's why I suggest foam on the inside all over.
    Meaning a soft absorbing material glued not nailed to the inside.this will help a hell of lot .
    Have a google look(pics) at sound booths ,they have no hard surfaces on the walls?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    . . . .
    The only thing I would add is to put foam all over your inner walls as thick as you can go.\.
    .
    That's why I suggest foam on the inside all over.
    Meaning a soft absorbing material glued not nailed to the inside.this will help a hell of lot .
    Have a google look(pics) at sound booths ,they have no hard surfaces on the walls?
    Yes this will help but a sound booth is not really a workshop. Unless it is a ceiling or high up on unused walls where foam or poly bats can be used on exposed surfaces, soft materials on walls is impractical in a WW shop which is a place where things are hung from and attached to walls. Soft material on a wall will also get damaged and fray, become a dust trap and become a right PITA.

    You have to be also careful of acoustic bridging.
    This is will happen if you have hard surface in the inside ,
    Hard surface in to studs in to hard surface on the outside.
    The noise then has what's call a bridge.
    Bridging is a problem if flexible materials are used on the outer walls as this allows the sound to be re-radiated outside, e.g. minimally supported sheet metal structures. This is why dense heavy material are used, so if the sound reaches it, it does not flex as much so the sound bounces back off the inside surface of the heavy material back into the absorbent layer and into the shed to the opposite wall and back and forth again and again until the sound is absorbed.

    If bridging worries you a double stud wall with an unconnected cavity (or just connected at top and bottom) that is full of absorber is very effective. The time to construct and the cost of a double stud wall is often best directed to just making the external wall even heavier. Double stud walls are useful on multi story structures as they are generally lighter.

    FWIW I have mini orb sheeting on the inside wall of the metal work end of my shed and it is surprisingly effective at sound control. Because it is quite stiff (much stiffer than regular corrugated iron) it does not transmit the sound through it to the outside wall but reflects back into the shed where the mini orb pattern scatters the sound so it is not as loud as you might expect inside the shed and certainly much quieter than flat sheet metal. In fact this stuff is sold as a sound control material for large internal spaces. I used it because of its low flammability but if I had known that it was going to be that effective in terms of sound I would have used it throughout my shed. The only drawback is the cost.

  10. #9
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    can I suggest that if you are framing up a "shed" under the Queenslander, you may have problems with lack of ventilation or excessive heat inside the house

    Also, you may want to include a firewall somewhere in the framing -- I'm told that two overlapping layers of 16mm gyprock provides an adequate barrier and should add significant sound proofing.

    Also, price materials from building suppliers as well as the Green shed
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  11. #10
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    [QUOTE=BobL;1807452]Whatever you do it is not possible to achieve acoustical control with a single cheap product.
    You will need at least two materials
    1) Something dense like a sheet of lead, or thick and heavy like thick ply or chipboard, or concete/brick, ..........

    [f/QUOTE]

    Hi Luke,
    Im in the process of moving my dust collector outside of the shed and I'm also very conscious of the impact on my neighbours. Like Bob, I need to build a weather proof AND noise dampening enclosure. This enclosure will obviously be smaller than your workshop but I'm planning on using a masonry product called acousticell which is a concrete block with apertures on one face that trap and dampen noise. I'll let you know how it goes wrt to noise and cost. The beauty of blocks is that they are their own structural support and I can lay them myself to keep the cost down. I will be investing in a sound meter app though!
    fletty
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  12. #11
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    [QUOTE=fletty;1808494]
    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Whatever you do it is not possible to achieve acoustical control with a single cheap product.
    You will need at least two materials
    1) Something dense like a sheet of lead, or thick and heavy like thick ply or chipboard, or concete/brick, ..........

    [f/QUOTE]

    Hi Luke,
    Im in the process of moving my dust collector outside of the shed and I'm also very conscious of the impact on my neighbours. Like Bob, I need to build a weather proof AND noise dampening enclosure. This enclosure will obviously be smaller than your workshop but I'm planning on using a masonry product called acousticell which is a concrete block with apertures on one face that trap and dampen noise. I'll let you know how it goes wrt to noise and cost. The beauty of blocks is that they are their own structural support and I can lay them myself to keep the cost down. I will be investing in a sound meter app though!
    fletty
    It will be interesting to see the cost .

    My enclosure is technically in the "do not build in this space" along the edge of the block, so its not attached to the ground and attached to the wall of my shed by 6 coach bolts so it is possible to remove it if the sewage guys need to get down there.

    Rather than invest in a sound meter I would in the first instance try out a free Sound Pressure Level (SPL) App. They are mostly accurate to 3-4dB at the most sensitive hearing frequencies and are better that this for comparative readings. Cheap meters will be no more accurate than this and if you want more accuracy then an App like the $12 SoundMeter App from Faber Acoustic will be better than a cheap meter. If you want good accuracy across the frequency range then its less the meter and more the microphone that is critical and you can get one that attaches to a smart phone but they a pretty exxy but you will need to buy a good mic to go with any meter if that is what you are chasing.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Newcastle
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    Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way?

    It might be an opportune time to get into the dark side and go hand tools!

    Do your timber prep for a project on the weekend during the day, rest of the week work on it whenever you feel like. Unless the sound of a handsaw bothers the neighbours, in which case you're stuffed anyway.

    Sound proofing in my experience gets very costly very quickly...

  14. #13
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    Aug 2008
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    Default SOUND ABSORBING MATERIALS

    [QUOTE=BobL;1807452]Whatever you do it is not possible to achieve acoustical control with a single cheap product.

    You will need at least two materials
    1) Something dense like a sheet of lead, or thick and heavy like thick ply or chipboard, or concete/brick,
    and
    2) Something sound absorbent like foam, or layers of carpet or corrugated cardboard.




    Would layers of used carpet underlay be an effective, cheap alternative to absorb noise? A Neoprene sandwich has been recommended by experts, but this would be very expensive. Rubber-type carpet underlay is porous like neoprene, as far as I can remember. The thicker Gyprock (19mm?),as used for higher fire rating, is apparently a good lining for the inside surface.

    To reduce bridging, would a layer of Sikaflex over the studs be helpful?

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by robgran View Post
    Would layers of used carpet underlay be an effective, cheap alternative to absorb noise?
    Carpet is supposed to be good for higher frequencies,
    The best carpet is cut pile with rubber underlay
    If you have it, a couple of layers would be worth it.
    You'd still have to back it with a hard reflector to keep the sound from leaking out

    A Neoprene sandwich has been recommended by experts, but this would be very expensive. Rubber-type carpet underlay is porous like neoprene, as far as I can remember. The thicker Gyprock (19mm?),as used for higher fire rating, is apparently a good lining for the inside surface.

    To reduce bridging, would a layer of Sikaflex over the studs be helpful?
    Yep but you'd have to goop it on in a thickish layer i.e. a thin layer on a stud and then screwing a cover sheet like ply or gyprock onto the stud will not help that much. You'd have to lay down a couple of mm onto the stud and let it harden and then lay down a thin layer on top and use that to hold the cover sheet onto the wall. You could use screws to hold the cover sheets on while the sika drys but then I'd take the screws out otherwise they will transfer the sound to the studs.

  16. #15
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    Oct 2014
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    I had the opportunity to build some sound studios once and had to do a bit of research on this subject. As far as I can tell there is no substitute for mass and if air can pass through a gap, so can noise. The guy I built this for had a bigger budget than you but here is how I built them for him. You might be able to adapt this for your situation.

    The frame was 90x45 stud walls and ceiling joist. The outer panelling was 22mm yellow tongue flooring and the inner panelling was made of two layers. The first layer was the same 22mm flooring with all joints sealed with an acoustic sealer with a second layer of 13mm Soundcheck (Gyprock product) over the top which was then patched and flushed. The wall frames were filled with an acoustic insulation (I'm sorry but I don't remember the rating of it). All the penetrations for electrical wiring etc were sealed with the acoustic sealer as well. The door was a custom jamb with 2 solid doors with weather seals all around and a heavy duty weather strip onto the floor.

    Regarding the idea of using the flexible adhesives for fixing the paneling, we looked into it and concluded that whilst it had merit and if we could have afforded it we would have, we got better results for our money by sealing the gaps. Our walls and ceiling had enough mass that there was minimal transfer of sound through the wall.

    One thing you will have to remember is the ceiling of your room will 'leak' noise as well as the walls. A lot of people forget that.

    Ventilation was an issue but the owner had aircon installed because of the heat generated in the room. I'm not sure how you would overcome this but it will certainly be an issue.

    I had good results with this design so I hope this helps.

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